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A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

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Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#231
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It can't be just a number on a computer in a bank, right? And yet people question the utility of a decentralized, trustless, public ledger -- ie. blockchain.

Which is not just a number on a computer, right?

ITs a number of lots of computers that use crypto algorithms to decide what the True ledger is.. So it cant be edited like a row in a DB can. But yes. you're right.

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#232
post #26

I often wonder how money is stored. It can't be just a number on a computer in a bank, right? Otherwise some Russian bank could just increase that number to whatever they like. And say "Look, we own 100 Trillion USD. Now let's go shopping.". So I guess USD needs to be recognized by the US somehow? Could the US simply "void" all USD that are owned by Russia?

> It can't be just a number on a computer in a bank, right? And yet people question the utility of a decentralized, trustless, public ledger -- ie. blockchain.

Unfortunately many won't until they find themselves in a circumstance where decentralization is of vital importance. At which point it may be too late.

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#233
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The energy/heating situation in Europe is very tenuous. In the UK most everyone has gas central heating, and energy bills are skyrocketing. This is the most pressing domestic issue in the country right now, far above covid. Johnson is attempting to gain some popularity by putting on a tough face, but there is no chance he can survive if energy prices rise any further. Here a staggering number of people die every wint…

I absolutely agree (I live in the UK), but in the end it's a question of money I believe. Somebody has to bear the cost of more expensive fuel/gas. I am sure if UK wanted it could have subsidised those costs till the next winter. I don't know how expensive that would be, but I doubt it's astronomical. On a balance of costs between squeezing Russia more or saving that money they (and Europe it seems) decided to save t…

The frozen accounts if the Russian perpetrators could be used to offset the cost of the subsidy!

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#234
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, China isn’t going to side with the US/EU, and the rest of the Asian countries are too small to matter, including Japan/Korea. In fact, China has stepped up their efforts to aid Russia. The next few weeks will be history in the making. Pay attention.

India are far from small, bu they did not condemn Russia.

They did not condemn it but they also did not signal support like China did - I suspect Modi expected Putin to stop at Donbas and sees his best option right now as a ceasefire, which is what he's openly asked for as well.

Unlike Russia's allies other than China, India cannot afford to be shut out of the US and supported by Russia, and unlike China, Europe and the US can impose fairly strict sanctions on India in the short-term.

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#235
post #199
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It can't be just a number on a computer in a bank, right? It really is, but to answer your second question, it's important to consider *which* bank. There's reserves (i.e. balances of banks at the Federal Reserve) and bank deposits (which really are just numbers in banks' databases). Having an account at the former is effectively what makes numbers in the database of the latter "real USD". > Otherwise some Russian…

> Indirectly, yes: They can force every bank holding USD balances for embargoed beneficiaries to freeze these assets. Failing to comply could, in the absolute worst case, lead to that bank's Fed accounts being frozen as well (which would take away its ability to settle in USD with other banks). They could also go much further. US has the power to force any bank that wants to transact in USD to freeze all Russian asse…

Isn't that what blocking them on SWIFT actually is?

Or do they have another way?

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often wonder how money is stored. The Bank of England published a summary of how modern banks work. See https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/m... > It can't be just a number on a computer in a bank, right? It can and it is, see the BOE paper. > So I guess USD needs to be recognized by the US somehow? This is a complicated question that will start a flamewar, but basically, any bank in the wo…

It's amazing to watch people who have never really thought about this before realize the entire banking system is built upon a handful of centralized, permissioned databases which can pretty much be turned on/off at will for certain parties by the central banks. What is even more amazing is watching these same people (no necessarily you OP, but prevailing opinion on HN...) then go on an argue that a permission-less d…

You describe money as if it’s just numbers being moved around: yes, the technology is just numbers moving around, but money is a social construct not a technology, the use of technology is a very small part of what makes money money.

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bit what if they didn't, and just changed some numbers in their database?

Then you have fraud, likely leading to an economic crisis. Consider the 2007-2008 financial crisis. Abstractly, investors believed that homes had significant value until, one day, society realized the value didn't exist in reality but only "on paper." We know that investment bankers were hiding the problem until the proverbial lid blew. You might consider that our current financial paradigm has never been tried befor…

One dollar now holds value relative to your tax bill. If you're subject to US taxes then you have to hold dollars. The IRS doesn't accept precious metals, and if you fail to pay in dollars then they'll seize your other assets. (Technically the IRS might accept official US minted gold coins at face value but that's not really something that happens in practice.)

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often wonder how money is stored. The Bank of England published a summary of how modern banks work. See https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/m... > It can't be just a number on a computer in a bank, right? It can and it is, see the BOE paper. > So I guess USD needs to be recognized by the US somehow? This is a complicated question that will start a flamewar, but basically, any bank in the wo…

It's amazing to watch people who have never really thought about this before realize the entire banking system is built upon a handful of centralized, permissioned databases which can pretty much be turned on/off at will for certain parties by the central banks. What is even more amazing is watching these same people (no necessarily you OP, but prevailing opinion on HN...) then go on an argue that a permission-less d…

> permission-less distributed ledger like Bitcoin is a completely unnecessary waste of resources.

it certainly is when it immediately de facto centralizes! which is in the event what has happened

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#239

While, in principle, I support sanctions against Russia for their actions, I can't help but think they are using Ukraine as part of a larger economic game. Basically, they are forcing countries to take sides to some degree, and any country that wants to continue trading with Russia will have to adopt an alternative financial system/network, one that is not Dollar-centric like most of the world currently uses. I think…

Pretty sure it's China using Russia for part of its larger economic game to accomplish the goals you mention.

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often wonder how money is stored. The Bank of England published a summary of how modern banks work. See https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/m... > It can't be just a number on a computer in a bank, right? It can and it is, see the BOE paper. > So I guess USD needs to be recognized by the US somehow? This is a complicated question that will start a flamewar, but basically, any bank in the wo…

It's amazing to watch people who have never really thought about this before realize the entire banking system is built upon a handful of centralized, permissioned databases which can pretty much be turned on/off at will for certain parties by the central banks. What is even more amazing is watching these same people (no necessarily you OP, but prevailing opinion on HN...) then go on an argue that a permission-less d…

>What is even more amazing is watching these same people (no necessarily you OP, but prevailing opinion on HN...) then go on an argue that a permission-less distributed ledger like Bitcoin is a completely unnecessary waste of resources.

Hating the way modern banking works doesn't mean blockchain is a flawless solution. It comes with a ton of its own problems (not the least of which being that it's utterly inscrutable to normies). I personally would prefer we go back to currency backed by gold or some other comparable commodity (silver, etc.)

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