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Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

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Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#231

Post by modo_mario »

_ph_ wrote: post #11
raxxorrax wrote: post #2

That is not remotely pulling the plug. This is "thinking about it" again. They already stopped accreditation a few weeks ago, otherwise it would already transport gas as the pipeline is already filled. They just say that they have officially stopped the process which they more or less already did. I think in a year it might come online again if the news cycle is on another topic. Overall it will be much more expensiv…

It is dead for all purposes unless the political climate changes radically. Whatever the Russian plans for a gas supplier to Germany were, they are limited to what the existing pipelines can deliver. I hope, we can reduce the dependency on Russian gas quickly, even if it means the additional effort of shipping LNG from the US or other sources. Mid-term it should be highest priority to get rid of fossil fuels as quick…

>Whatever the Russian plans for a gas supplier to Germany were, they are limited to what the existing pipelines can deliver.

They existing pipelines can deliver more easily. It's not like they've been running anywhere close to full capacity. Nordstream is more about taking leverage away from countries like Ukraine.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#232

Post by phkahler »

another_why wrote: post #171

If there were real plans to sanction people responsible for invasion, they should've sanctioned russian billionaires - cancel their residence, close their companies, liquidate their property, freeze their money in banks, forbid travel. But this looks like they are taking EU money to pay to US gas fracking companies

Did you ever notice that in Chess (a game of kings) you never actually capture the opposing king, you just back him into a corner and call the game over. All other pieces on the board are actually captured and removed.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#233

Post by yorwba »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #146
piokoch wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is not stupid to become depended on Russian gas or oil supply. The deal they signed with Russia is for 38 billion cubic meters of gas sent through "Power of Siberia" gas pipe (for comparison, in 2006 Poland purchase from Russia 206 billion cubic meters) and this throughput will be reached in 2025. Russia has no practical way to transfer gas designated for Europe to China, there is no pipe they can use as gas co…

Uh, it’s a 30 year contract and China is also investing in Russian lng related companies: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/a-property-sells-10-... . From another source: https://lngprime.com/asia/chinas-zhejiang-energy-to-buy-stak... > Furthermore, A-Property said that the project involves building a 1358 kilometers long pipeline that would connect Yatek’s fields in Yakutia to the 18 mtpa LNG plant near Ayan o…

Yakutia is relatively close to China, but most Russian gas exported to Europe comes from Western Siberia, which is farther away from China.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#234

Post by rosndo »

DeathArrow wrote: post #200
nabla9 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is improved LNG capacity (LNG terminals and LNG regasification capacity) as a policy. LNG imports will take over Russian gas over medium term. After regasification the gas goes to same pipes. Biden has discussed with US energy companies on how to get them into providing LNG capacity to European needs.

Wouldn't LNG from US be much more expensive than gas from Russia? Why would European countries pay for it?

Because they’d rather depend on an ally than an openly hostile state. Because the US would massively subsidize LNG exports to EU in order to support their allies?

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#235

Post by starfallg »

sinyug wrote: post #222
starfallg wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Personally, I don't really see a way out of this. China is going to be more powerful than Nato. This is still playing out, and I'm extremely sceptical of this take. China has a lot of domestic problems to deal with and a lack of allies due to their geo-politiking. Then you have India waiting in the wings, ready to be to China, what China was to America. Keeping in mind, we are all nuclear powers.

> India waiting in the wings, ready to be to China Indian democracy makes this a non-starter. We cannot get simple things done because every single issue gets tied up in protests and courts for decades on end.[1][2] [1] Indian Neutrino Observatory ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India-based_Neutrino_Observato... ) [2] Tamil Nadu says ‘no’ in Supreme Court to neutrino observatory project ( https://www.thehindu.com/new…

The idea that a democracy can't get anything done is pretty silly. The problem with the Indian system isn't really to do with democracy, rather the structure of the Indian political system that can be fixed. The CCP took decades in order to settle upon a structure that worked for them, before Deng it was endless chaos and internal strife.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#236

Post by MagnumOpus »

nix23 wrote: post #103
danjac wrote: post #79

Germany's problem is that it really wants to be Switzerland - rich, neutral, outwardly virtuous yet totally amoral. Unfortunately its history and geography make that impossible.

Neutral and amoral bites each other. Germany wants to be the leader of europe...yet no one else wants that....understandably.

Germany politicians desperately don't want to be the leaders of anything.

Given the country's GDP, tech prowess and population, they could be a military and espionage powerhouse far exceeding the UK or France, even rivaling Russia; but historical and political reasons make them tread softly and prefer throwing money at problems (e.g. paying off other countries to join the EU through the CAP, or sending FDI or aid to emerging Europe and Africa) rather than to bully countries using cyber attack or spec ops or even more hardline trade/sanction policies...

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#238

Post by throwaway123x2 »

muro wrote: post #51
chrisseaton wrote: post #16

Remember like a week ago when the Germany navy said the idea that Russia wanted to invade Ukraine was nonsense? Fools.

I first thought he didn't say "wanted to invade Ukraine was nonsense", but that Krym will not be returned to Ukraine and the world will have to come to terms with it. But you are right, he said "Russia wanting a tiny strip of Ukraine was nonsense" and that is indeed what just happened: https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/1/23/german-navy-chi...

It is nonsense... unless there's a greater endgame Russia is playing towards that we're about to find out.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#239

Post by ben_w »

DeathArrow wrote: post #200
nabla9 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is improved LNG capacity (LNG terminals and LNG regasification capacity) as a policy. LNG imports will take over Russian gas over medium term. After regasification the gas goes to same pipes. Biden has discussed with US energy companies on how to get them into providing LNG capacity to European needs.

Wouldn't LNG from US be much more expensive than gas from Russia? Why would European countries pay for it?

To punish Russia (or its leadership). If US LNG was cheaper, Europe would just be saying “Stop doing the things we don’t like or we’ll change supplier, but that’s in our own best interest so we are likely to do anyway regardless”.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#240

Post by littlestymaar »

nindalf wrote: post #221
littlestymaar wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't be serious are you? In a discussion about the history of Japan Korea and China, arguing that China was “the bad guy”?! That being said, history is a poor proxy for future behavior: Japan is really unlikely to ever resume its aggressive expansionist policy, and it's not because China doesn't have a terrible track record of neighbors invasion that it will not start in this century. But that doesn't really exc…

You’re arguing in bad faith, or you simply didn’t read the comment I was replying to. That person was making an extraordinary claim - that China has been completely peaceful. I replied to that claim alone And here you are with vitriolic claims that I was rewriting history.

> That person was making an extraordinary claim - that China has been completely peaceful.

No, they did not say that. What they actually said:

> This is just to point out that China is not historically as aggressive as we are in the West.

Now talk about “bad faith”…

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