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App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

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Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#231

Post by Spivak »

tragictrash wrote: post #202
Dig1t wrote: post #197

I'd bet $20 that Google (and probably Amazon) has started or will start working on an App Store for iOS. If either of them use their dark patterns to get people to install their app stores then this could be a different situation than what's happening on Android, where very few users actually side load apps. With the weight of one of these giants they could really get massive adoption on iOS in an alternative store.

Damn. They are totally going to do this, just to avoid the app store review process. Funny how apple made the process so difficult and because of that, when they lose their monopoly, Google and others will be there waiting to implement the parent comment's plan.

I mean it's not super exciting as a user that apps are gonna wholesale migrate away to the whatever store has the fewest rules and lowest cost to publishers. I see the value-add from the publisher side -- yay we can spam, charge for notifications and dark mode, and freely track users!

I mean it's absolutely nuts that the web is basically unusable without an aggressive content filter but obviously native apps are gonna be angels.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#232

Post by sgjohnson »

tragictrash wrote: post #195
zepto wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they can. Nothing prevents that. If you think it does, you’ve been lied to.

Not true. Apple places a 7 day limit on developer mode side loaded apps when using a free account. Sorry to link to Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/sideloaded/comments/8ht5uy/question...

And there’s also a 3 app maximum

Although you can always pay Apple $99/year to get around it!

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#233

Post by lostmsu »

Spivak wrote: post #227
dskloet wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, would you pay 40% more for the convenience of being able to cancel in one place?

Of course not, I also wouldn't pay 20-40% more for free two day shipping or 30% more for free food delivery over $12, but nonetheless Amazon and DoorDash are able to take that much of a cut from sellers and restaurants. You miss the fundamental thing which is that the charge is specifically for publishers for a reason. It's because it absolutely is worth 30% to every business who wants to reach a lucrative market.

> DoorDash are able to take that much of a cut from sellers and restaurants

You are building a perfect argument against Apple here. As DoorDash rates grew I stopped using them less and less and started driving to the restaurants myself. And DoorDash rates are still far cry from 30%.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#234

Post by sgjohnson »

mullingitover wrote: post #230
tragictrash wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. Apple places a 7 day limit on developer mode side loaded apps when using a free account. Sorry to link to Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/sideloaded/comments/8ht5uy/question...

It'd be pretty trivial to throw together some automation that reinstalls your sideloaded apps nightly.

The device has to be unlocked, and non-Xcode builds require connecting the device to the computer using a cable.

So it’s not as trivial as it seems.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#235

Post by lostmsu »

Spivak wrote: post #228
emsy wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet to see a downside of this bill that isn’t solved by deleting or not installing offending apps.

Because software isn't fungible and "doesn't spam" isn't a differentiating feature so it costs apps nothing to do it.

I uninstalled a few noisy apps (that is until Android added a per-app mute for notifications).

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#236

Post by mopsi »

toqy wrote: post #220
warning26 wrote: post #214

Good. At the very least, people should be allowed to install browsers that aren't Safari.

If Chrome’s battery drain vs Safari on MacOS is an indication of how it’ll be on iOS then I’ll pass

That's fine. But don't take away my freedom to decide that for myself.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#237

Post by sgjohnson »

rvz wrote: post #224
fartcannon wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah they are.

No they are not. One can write / use a progressive web app and have the app installed and running without the need of an App Store at all.

“Progressive Web App” is not an app. It’s a website, and it’s moronic to pretend otherwise.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#238

Post by root_axis »

olliej wrote: post #135
chomp wrote: post #2

Sudden outbreak of common sense. I hope this passes and forces Google/Apple to justify the value that their app stores provide, for the amount that they take from developers.

No, the value the store provides is the SDK. Just as Unity requires you to license IP, I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that the is going away, only now developers get to bypass sandbox restrictions and access user data. From the users point of view side loading allows only a reduction in security. All those tracking restrictions? App Store submission policy. All those raw data access protections? App Store rej…

> There is a reason malware is a huge problem on android but not on iOS.

So it is said, but is this actually true? Anecdotally, my non-technical parents have been android users for 10 years and malware is a non-issue. I'd be interested in data that could demonstrate otherwise.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#239

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

The main question is: What about push notifications? WHAT ABOUT PUSH NOTIFICATIONS?!!

Even if we sideload an app, with modern mobile OS architecture many classes of apps will be almost useless if sideloaded apps will not be able to use push notifications provided by an operating system.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#240

Post by LexGray »

teknopaul wrote: post #75
zepto wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Android is the dominant platform, and there is a lot of cool software missing. E.g. Any app that takes donations to charity or payments outside apple. Maybe not cool to you because you don't notice the cut apple takes. Apple users don't even realise there is competition in the keyboard market. Of the many cool apps missing are the ones that require root. Neither platform provide that so loads of apps are impossible.…

a) iOS customers pay extra for the service protections of easy subscription management and keeping payment information out of shoddy payment platforms. Registered charities can accept Apple Pay to avoid the cut.

b) The Keyboard API is designed to be tiny and blocks broadcasting keystrokes. It is like it was not designed to be a general computing device.

c) Again not intended as a general purpose device. I recall early on they added hardware to the camera to prevent it from detecting out of sight spectrum to prevent it from being used to find heat leaks and the like.

d) Android is the only platform where other people can secretly control your device.

e) Apple gives lots of hoots. They are clearly trying to craft a specific experience.

f) True of most anything with a chip. Cars, game machines, smart TVs all have anti-tampering tech even without your banking data on them.

g) Web servers are often compromised so bad for security. Computers never made good WiFi bridges. Plenty of music apps. I see point of sale iPads all over the place.

h) yes. The idea of billions of devices out there with constantly running background Location/Bluetooth sniffers reporting to ad-tech is horrifying to me. It would make the AirTags stalking seem like a joke if every phone secretly tracked every Bluetooth.

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