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GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

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Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#231

Post by bawolff »

daenz wrote: post #54
Barrin92 wrote: post #34

okay so this is an unlawful protest that has a detrimental impact on residents, the environment, and local business. Can someone explain to me why this is tolerated and why these people are not simply being arrested? What it reminds me of is that 2014 standoff with the Bundy family on federal land in the US or farmers in France. Some groups can just do whatever they want apparently.

>The whole point of protesting is to make ppl uncomfortable. Activists take that discomfort w/ the status quo & advocate for concrete policy changes. Popular support often starts small & grows. To folks who complain protest demands make others uncomfortable... that’s the point. https://twitter.com/aoc/status/1334184644707758080

I don't really find that compelling.

Some level of discomfort is ok. Some is not. There is a line somewhere. Usually it involves the level of violence involved (terrorists after all are just making people very "uncomfortable" [what's more uncomfortable than being blown up] to achieve a political end.).

To make the ad absurdum argument explicit: if your argument for why this protest is ok applies to 9/11 to the same extent that it applies to this protest, maybe its a bad argument. That doesn't mean that this protest is neccesarily not ok, just that this is a really bad argument to use to prove the point.

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#232

Post by mikeyouse »

hunterb123 wrote: post #227
mikeyouse wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Again, that's your perception of the world which is deluded by your ignorance of others. Also, you ignored the rest of my post to further live in your delusion of a racist enemy to play hero against.

I (loosely) know plenty of people who fly the confederate flag -- they're all awful shitty racists. Including some of my family members. They all claim it's for heritage reasons as well (which is weird because we're in "the north").

The rest of your post was some anecdotal observation that you've never seen a Gadsden flag next to a confederate one.

Here's the Gadsden flown by secessionists in Civil War Georgia fighting to maintain and expand slavery: https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/images/Dontreadonme.jpg?max...

Here's the Alabama secession flag (which they flew because they wanted to keep slavery): https://archives.alabama.gov/images/noliflag.gif

In fact, the Gadsden symbol was so ubiquitous as a symbol of maintaning slavery, they had political 'cartoons' of Eagles dismembering snakes in Union papers: https://repository.library.georgetown.edu/bitstream/handle/1...

It actually made it into the Battle Hymn of the Republic as well,

> "I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel…Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel."

Here's both with a Swastika being flown in Charlottesville before the Unite the Right rally: https://www.virginiamercury.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/C...

Here's one from Milwaukee from someone protesting the initial lockdowns in 2020: https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/04/19/PMJS/67a2a7dc-...

Hope that's helpful background into why many people associate the two flags.

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#233

Post by mikeyouse »

prepend wrote: post #212
DonHopkins wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why he said "waving swastikas", not "being Nazis". But yes, Nazis are getting involved with the anti-vax protests, on the same side as Trump, not on Science's side. In Germany’s east, far-right extremists find footholds in escalating anti-vaccine protests: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/30/coronavirus-... >While Kohlmann contends that Free Saxons is not an extremist group, German authorities sa…

But “waving swastikas” isn’t very interesting unless it signifies Nazis right? It’s not bad to use swastikas to critique governments if you think they’re acting like Nazis. The intent of swastikas in that situation isn’t pro-nazi or anti-Semitic. I’m not sure what real Nazis in Germany being anti-vax has to do with our conversation. RFKJr is anti-vax too, what does that matter about this convoy. I was trying to figur…

Comparing a government mandate for international truckers to get a free, safe vaccine during a pandemic to anything nazis did is deeply offensive.

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#234

Post by hunterb123 »

mikeyouse wrote: post #232
hunterb123 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, that's your perception of the world which is deluded by your ignorance of others. Also, you ignored the rest of my post to further live in your delusion of a racist enemy to play hero against.

I (loosely) know plenty of people who fly the confederate flag -- they're all awful shitty racists. Including some of my family members. They all claim it's for heritage reasons as well (which is weird because we're in "the north"). The rest of your post was some anecdotal observation that you've never seen a Gadsden flag next to a confederate one. Here's the Gadsden flown by secessionists in Civil War Georgia fighti…

> They all claim it's for heritage reasons

But you know mindread better than what everyone else is thinking.

I know plenty of people, plenty of music, plenty of shows (general lee), plenty of culture that involves the confederate flag without racism.

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#236

Post by mikeyouse »

hunterb123 wrote: post #234
mikeyouse wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (loosely) know plenty of people who fly the confederate flag -- they're all awful shitty racists. Including some of my family members. They all claim it's for heritage reasons as well (which is weird because we're in "the north"). The rest of your post was some anecdotal observation that you've never seen a Gadsden flag next to a confederate one. Here's the Gadsden flown by secessionists in Civil War Georgia fighti…

> They all claim it's for heritage reasons But you know mindread better than what everyone else is thinking. I know plenty of people, plenty of music, plenty of shows (general lee), plenty of culture that involves the confederate flag without racism.

You don't see the irony in how you started off saying there's no relationship between the Gadsden flag and the Confederate flag (implying the former shouldn't be tainted by the latter) -- and then moved to a full-throated defense of the confederate flag? Anyway, if you can't see it, not sure what to tell you. Cheers.

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#237

Post by acheron »

mikeyouse wrote: post #139
enchiridion wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small nit-pick, it is disingenuous to write “Gadsen/Confederate” flag when those are two totally separate things. The Gadsen flag for most people is a symbol of independence and freedom. Historically it was not associated with slavery, the confederate secession, or the civil war.

99% of the Gadsden flags in my area are flying alongside confederate flags — likewise most of them in the protest pics I’ve seen. I know the flag’s history predates the Civil War and that it once upon a time was devoid of the current undertones, but alas, it’s (IMO) irredeemably tainted.

That’s utter nonsense and you should stop spreading it.

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#238

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

colpabar wrote: post #110
tonfreed wrote: post #74

Amazing that the 100 IQ elites all think they want a working class uprising, but when it happens they panic and smear them as every -ist and -ism label in the book. It's fine to disagree with the protesters, but at least be honest about what they want. They've been squeezed off online platforms and out of mainstream discourse, and this is what happens when it bubbles over.

What gets me is the way that people will see a picture of a swastika and immediately brand everyone involved as a racist, but then turn around and say that any wrongdoing that happened during a protest for a cause they do agree with was just a couple of bad apples who had nothing to do with the movement. Does that really only happen on one side?

My understanding is that they were very clearly comparing the Canadian government to Nazis, not expressing support for Nazis, but at this point I'd have to see photos to be sure.

My own image searches only turn up upside-down Canadian flags, "Fuck Trudeau" slogans, and stuff about "freedom". I'd have to think that if somebody really wanted to undermine them and had such a photo, they'd have posted it.

How bad is the reporting? I checked the NYT; https://archive.fo/Jny6X

It's not awful in any obvious way.

It does describe the protest as "mostly peaceful". As that phrase is a little notorious, I laughed a little. Since NYT staff spend a lot of time on Twitter, I imagine they know the significance. But hey, if it was peaceful and they said so, then they've done their job ok there.

The headline does have some negative connotations: The convoy "descends on Ottowa" (not, I dunno, "protesters gather to demand justice").

And there is one sentence that is incendiary enough that it really needs more context:

"Some of them carried Canadian flags upside down; at least one flag had swastikas drawn on it."

This invites the reader to draw one conclusion, but the meaning may be something else, as in my first paragraph.

So I'd have to see to be sure. But no photos are forthcoming.

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#239

Post by bawolff »

Gigachad wrote: post #230
bawolff wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps i missed it, but how many other protests in canada involve defiling grave sites, stealing food from the homeless, etc. I can certainly agree that humans tend to demonize the sins of the other while turning a blind eye to their own side's, but is that really what is happening here? To me it seems like this protest is of a different type.

The BLM protests ended up in a lot worse. A few murders, a LOT of property damage, and a whole lot more. And yet they were largely supported by the media despite the bad apples.

In canada? Do you have a source for that?

(Not saying they were 100% peaceful,i know there was some unrest in montreal, but my understanding is it was quite minor and nothing like what you are describing)

Re: GoFundMe pauses donations to Canada truckers

#240

Post by chroem- »

dang wrote: post #213
chroem- wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Would you please stop posting ideological flamewar comments to HN? They're tedious, repetitive, and not at all what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Dang, I watched you single out all of my comments, and then later go back for a second pass to flag the other posters too after you read my profile description, so as to preserve the illusion of impartiality. Calling my posts "flamewar comments" implies I'm being uncivil, and this is how the HN echo chamber gets groomed. Please be more conscious of your own biases in the future.
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