>"Israel is its own nation and it isn't America's business what it does to its own citizens." Syria is its own nation and it isn't America's business what it does to its own citizens.
now now now, let's not question anything here shall we?
Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens
231–240 of 370 posts
Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep, like that disgusting incident on 2005 where they gave up their land... and their control... they are the worst. Who else is at fault to what happened in Gaza? The apartheid of curse. Disgusting! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaz...
Here's a massive list of crimes that Israel is quilty of, with sources, for your perusal: https://www.reddit.com/r/list_palestine/comments/l43xgk/mega...
HN is quickly deteriorating to Gab/Zero Hedge quality, nice.
Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
You do know this is a Conflict? Never denied both parties are fighting. Here is of course the counter list [1]. But while I'm just against the commenter one-siding of the situation. You are trying to make it a one-side crime again... which again... very wrong. Here is a quote just to show how not one sided it is: [1] "... A February 2008 suicide bombing that killed one Israeli woman in Dimona was supported by 77% and…
How many people have been killed by Palestinians in Israel since, say, 2011 (the last ten years?) How many has Israel killed in Palestine in the same time frame? I will not even go into the difference between lone gunmen and state-sanctioned killings. Let's accept that any Palestinian killing an Isareli should be treated the same as an officer of the Israeli military or police, acting in their official capacity, kill…
> How many people have been killed by Palestinians in Israel since, say, 2011 (the last ten years?) How many has Israel killed in Palestine in the same time frame?
It will only be proportional if Israel agrees to let Hamas and the PLO be armed with as good weapons as it has. Or in other words if Israel commits suicide. It's unclear to me what you're actually arguing for.
Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the ability exists, what's to stop them from using it? Good manners? And what's the incentive for someone to tell us, if they are? Become another Snowden or Assange or Manning? Not a very compelling outcome...
The adversarial judicial system is supposed to restrict that by having the defendant's lawyers challenge the evidence and how it was obtained. The prosecution and police can't simply use inappropriate evidence. In some cases it's possible (and worth the effort) to do 'parallel construction' by getting a warrant for some other evidence confirming the same thing, but it's not something that can be done at scale without…
It's more than some cases, and yes it can be done at scale, to some extent: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R2013...
Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
And anyone who thinks their own country isnt doing the same is deluded! The Security Services has to protect a country which means getting involved in everything, organised crime as well as business, and then when they feel things need to change direction, the security services have the tools aka blackmail information to make that change happen... in most cases!
I'm only aware of one case where the US government, without warrant, actively hacked its own citizens using a 0day, which was when the FBI exploited a 0day to compromise users of TOR who, as I recall, were looking to access CSAM. Even when going after a bunch of pedophiles I think there was a good bit of controversy there. I think there may actually have been a warrant for some part of the access, idk. I'm not saying…
> I'm only aware of one case where the US government, without warrant, actively hacked its own citizens using a 0day
It’s perhaps a bit broader than your definition there, but illegal exploitation and subsequent whitewashing of personal data by law enforcement is common enough that is has a name. Parallel construction. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction
Another point. For me, being caught zero times doing an illegal thing is a world apart from being caught one time. The chances on you being caught the only time you ever did s specific illegal act is so small that you pretty much go from assumed innocent if you’ve never been caught, to probably guilty if you’ve been caught even once before.
(That’s not an “assumed innocent “ in its legal context, I 100% agree a court should assume 2nd, 3rd, and 100th time convicted people are “innocent until proven guilty” and the prosecution should need to bring a strong enough case ignoring previous conviction to get a fair judgement. But if you’ve been caught using illegal methods before, I’m going to assume it’s something you have convinced yourself is ok, and you’ll do it whenever it suits you so long as you consider the chance of getting caught is low enough.)
Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
If he is not being malinformed, what other reason does he have to spread lies about Israel?
Can residents of Gaza and the occupied West Bank vote in Israeli elections, when they are under Israeli rule? If the answer is no, then that's apartheid.
Do they want to vote in Israeli election? Do they even want to live in a democracy, let alone in a binational country together with Israelis?
Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a lie, and you have an agenda. The "United Arab List" is part of the current government (!) not of the parliament, but the government itself that is formed. Representing many Arabs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_List Anyone who repeats the lie of "apartheid" is either malinformed, or has some antisemitic agenda to pro
Even if someone were unfairly anti-Israel, why would that imply they’re also antisemitic?
Well because it's a Jewish country. And one of the only countries in the world threatened with annihilation by some of its neighbors. When 77 years ago Jews were indeed being exterminated all over the world.
This very unique situation warrants someone to at least be careful with the tone and choice of words he uses when criticizing Israel.
Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
A lot of people voice their concerns, including a lot of Israelis, but what can you do? Israel is a democracy and the majority votes for far right militaristic candidates and parties. Whether or not you hear about these concerns in public discourse in your country's media depends on your current foreign policy.
Its a bit easier for Israel - if you are an outsider (99.9% of mankind) and dare criticize it anyhow, you are quickly marked either a) antisemitic or b) supporting islamic terrorism, or some mix of those. Nobody wants to touch that with 10 foot pole in woke era.
Oh yeah its so hard to criticize Israel, never read something bad about Israel. It's all praise and compliments in the media.
Did you know most religious Jews around the world are afraid to walk with religious clothes because they're afraid to get beat up? They don't wanna be called child killers or dirty jews or something of that sort.
This is happening now even in very woke cities like NY or London.
Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens
#239People used to quip that Prussia is an army with a country rather than the other way around, it seems like if you add the modern intelligence sector that describes Israel. With all the concerns about 'Military-civil fusion ' as it's called in China or Russia I always found it funny that Israel might as well be the country that has merged both spheres most successfully but nobody really seems to care at all.
A lot of people voice their concerns, including a lot of Israelis, but what can you do? Israel is a democracy and the majority votes for far right militaristic candidates and parties. Whether or not you hear about these concerns in public discourse in your country's media depends on your current foreign policy.
You're statement is incorrect. In the last elections that were held in March 2021 the results were as follows:
Likud - Center right - 24%
Yesh Atid - Center Left 14%
Shas - Religious - 7%
Kahol Lavan - Center left - 6%
Yamina - Center right - 6% (They've made a coalition with the Arab parties and formed a government eventually, and the leader became the prime minister)
Avoda - Social left -6%
Yahadot Tora - Religious - 6%
Israel Beytenu - right - 5%
Zionot Datit - Far right - 5%
Meshutefet - Joined Arab party - Far left - 4%
Tikva Hadash - Center Left - 4%
Merez - Far left -4%
Mehuedet- Joined Arab party - Far Left - 3%
And all the other didn't make it.
Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens
#240Can Israelis take the matter to court?
They don't really have a lot of civil rights or even a constitution.