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Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

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Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#231

Post by Tyr42 »

WalterBright wrote: post #223
kortilla wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's what resumes used to be, after all -- a kind of a take-home test where you really do have enough time (and perfect knowledge) to get everything 100 percent right. The only thing this filters for is people who have been looking for a job for a long time and/or are people focused on presentation instead of content, good luck with that. We’ve hired incredible engineers across that have had typos and major resum…

Being sloppy writing code, though, can be disastrous. I know I've rejected resumes for tech writing positions that contained spelling errors. I would hope a tech writer would at least use a spell chekker.

Unfortunate time for a typo there ;p

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#233

Post by vanusa »

kortilla wrote: post #183
vanusa wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. This isn't the "real world" you're referring to here -- it's the fin-de-big-tech bubble world where everyone and their dog is not only sold, smack-down drunk on the idea that Algorithms and Data are the Solution to Your Problems. They aren't of course -- it's just a giant hornswoggle. This "world" nee…

> That's what resumes used to be, after all -- a kind of a take-home test where you really do have enough time (and perfect knowledge) to get everything 100 percent right. The only thing this filters for is people who have been looking for a job for a long time and/or are people focused on presentation instead of content, good luck with that. We’ve hired incredible engineers across that have had typos and major resum…

Giving them a spell check is about as useful as measuring the ratio of times the letter ‘a’ appears relative to ‘e’.

I'll leave the matter of whether one should be expect resumes to be at least reasonably correct (in terms of spelling and grammar) or not - or what the threshold for "reasonably" should be on this front - to the side for now. It's obviously a question of taste, to a certain degree.

But sorry - what you're saying about the ratio of 'a' to 'e' makes no sense at all.

And on this front:

Unless you’re writing user documentation

I don't know what planet you live on -- but on my planet, good engineers write "user documentation" (in the sense of READMEs, docstrings, etc) and participate in mailing lists, do conference presentations, etc, all the time. And yes, while nobody is 100 percent perfect, consistently making a large number of gaffes (or more to the point: conveying an attitude that these things just don't matter; or that you're so hot that they shouldn't matter for you) in these contexts -- particularly when there there is plenty of time available to edit and review -- is definitely seen as a red flag, both in and outside the company.

For any company you'd want to work for, that is.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#234

Post by ycombobreaker »

vanusa wrote: post #186
digitalsushi wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google has 411m hits for Node.js and 66m for nodejs. I'd guess somewhere in the 66 million people calling it nodejs, we could find a real diamond in the rough if we heard them out at the next interview!

That's exactly what I mean -- people believe in Big Data so much these days that when something appears in a sufficient portion of search results, it must have actual validity.

Isn't that the same as natural language? "Bone Apple Tea" gets corrected both because it's wrong, and because many people know so. "Begging the Question" is used incorrectly _so frequently_ that even dictionaries have come to accept the incorrect usage as an alternative. It's now correct-ish just because it's popular.

So if Node.js has that many more hits than nodejs, it's not surprising that some people see it as canonical.

Hearing the context of this conversation, though, I can see that "nodejs" in your resume is a signal to senior peers within that community--others who are "in the know". That may be a useful filter.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#235

Post by acchow »

moralestapia wrote: post #91
jeroenhd wrote: post #42

In my opinion, there shouldn't be. Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic even for a software developer's mindset. I understand that there are real life problems because companies do use automated processing on applications, but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be en…

>Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded. If anything, a st…

Companies with this inferior filtering will see lower returns.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#236

Post by snowwrestler »

Isn’t the concept of the resume kind of outdated for most jobs?

The typical advice is to write your resume as a series of impact stories. “Saved my company X% of costs by automating a key process.” Or “increased revenue by Y% by always showing up for my shifts on time” or whatever.

But for many (most?) listed jobs [1], employers want competencies. They have a list of things that need to get done and they want people who can do those things quickly and cheaply.

So if there is going to be a universal data format, I think it’s probably going to try to document competencies (which is what employers actually care about) and not the vague brag sheets that many resumes are.

[1] By listed jobs I mean jobs you’ll find on a public job board like “front end developer” or “marketing manager.” As opposed to leadership positions or unlisted jobs which are more focused on impact and more likely to be filled by referral or recruiting.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#237

Post by celdon25 »

b112 wrote: post #208
throwawayboise wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even back in the era when reading resumes and hiring was a manual human process, the standard advice was that resumes should be perfect. Nicely formatted, with no spelling or grammatical errors. You have ample time to think about the content, to proofread it yourself, and to have someone else proofread it. It's the first impression the potential employer has of you, no reason to not make an effort.

Considering the node ecosystem, wouldn't those with mistakes on their resume be the perfect fit?

I wouldn't be surprised if there's already a correlation.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#238

Post by pronlover723 »

There is in Japan. I seems horrible to me. (not saying it couldn't be done better)

https://www.google.com/search?q=%E5%B1%A5%E6%AD%B4%E6%9B%B8&...

You list your school info, job history (not what you did, just date, company, title), and have room for about 2 sentences of personal description. You also have to put your picture so you can be judged on appearance.

Japan has some really nice features but treatment of employees, good salaries, good work culture, good hiring practices, are not among them

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#239

Post by ycombobreaker »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #227
jeroenhd wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if I'd mind that. If HR is made up of robots that stupid, that sounds like a terrible company to work for. A standard format wouldn't solve the problems you described. There's no comprehensive list of frameworks and programming languages, let alone for types of experience outside computer science. The data would be structured, but HR would still throw out the bits of data that need to be filled in manual…

It varies. There is a reason there is some level dislike for HR cohorts. Keyword bingo is one of those things. Minor anecdote incoming. I applied to a company A. It was a fit. I think I used the right keywords. Zero response. I talked with my buddy there. She talked with hiring manager. I got hired by company A. I later found out HR was unhappy, because it undermined their 'process' - such as it is. There just has to…

Do you really care that you made HR unhappy though? Seems like you shouldn't, the company/team management is probably happy to pursue references over the funnel of random candidates, and the unhappy HR staffer is better off learning from the experience.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#240

Post by jonex »

Jenk wrote: post #160

I actually use the resume as yet another insight into the candidate. Did they send me a bland shopping receipt of skills and experiences or put some thought into the layout and visuals? Have they created a firehose of information that I will need to fight against to get the relevant information, or have they drafted some easy to read, but not too short, notes, etc?

The candidate probably does not know that though, so they might be writing an exhaustive list in the belief that you want to see everything, or a very short list in the belief that you only want to get a quick overview and will ask detailed questions in interview. Obviously you get to choose what criteria you use for hiring, but I can't imagine you won't be putting quite some noise into the process if you think of the resume as a personality test rather than their attempt to present things in a way they believe companies want.
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