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Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#231

Post by davidgerard »

dlubarov wrote: post #228
davidgerard wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's why I said actual money, not USDT - which is absolutely not actual money.

If you don't want USDT, you can trade SOL/BUSD instead. The order book may be a little thinner, but not a big deal if you're not moving millions. While you might claim that BUSD isn't real money, you can just immediately withdraw it as fiat in your bank account, as long as Binance remains solvent. Or if you're still uncomfortable with BUSD for whatever reason, just trade e.g. SOL/USD on Coinbase.

I am talking about USD, not about stablecoins, and particularly not about stablecoins on tether exchanges. You are not refuting in any way whatsoever my point about the serious lack of actual-money liquidity for your favourite coin.

What is the depth of SOL against USD? Not against USDT, not against BUSD, but against actual-money dollars?

Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#232

Post by dlubarov »

davidgerard wrote: post #231
dlubarov wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want USDT, you can trade SOL/BUSD instead. The order book may be a little thinner, but not a big deal if you're not moving millions. While you might claim that BUSD isn't real money, you can just immediately withdraw it as fiat in your bank account, as long as Binance remains solvent. Or if you're still uncomfortable with BUSD for whatever reason, just trade e.g. SOL/USD on Coinbase.

I am talking about USD, not about stablecoins, and particularly not about stablecoins on tether exchanges. You are not refuting in any way whatsoever my point about the serious lack of actual-money liquidity for your favourite coin. What is the depth of SOL against USD? Not against USDT, not against BUSD, but against actual-money dollars?

See for yourself: https://pro.coinbase.com/trade/SOL-USD

Again, there's hundreds of thousands in orders within a $0.25 spread - plenty of liquidity if you're not moving millions.

Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#233

Post by lowkey »

md_ wrote: post #191
lowkey wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m exhausted by the fiat money scam 2% annual inflation over a 40 year career amounts to 40% less earnings. Inflation is theft. Bitcoin fixes this. No one has ever explained a better solution to inflation than Bitcoin. Fiat money printing is a scam that lets politicians spend more money without directly raising taxes. Bitcoin is honest sound money with a fixed inflation policy forever that cannot be manipulated by a…

I’m always a bit surprised when people seem to imply that there’s a fundamental human right to perfectly stable stores of value (if you could even define such a quality), and that the absence of that—inflation, price fluctuation, etc—is somehow unfair. Gold bugs like to say that “value” is what gold is worth, but if you look at the real value of gold over time—in terms of its ability to be exchanged for things that y…

> I’m always a bit surprised when people seem to imply that there’s a fundamental human right to perfectly stable stores of value

If it were not for central bankers printing money into existence, a person could work their life, save a portion for retirement in a bank account or other fixed income product, while enjoying a positive return on their investment, without taking on market risk of loss of funds.

I don’t think I am being entitled to believe that this option should exist for those who wish to take advantage of it. Forcing everyone into the stock or real estate markets just to stay ahead of inflation is a crime against the people.

> A saver who wants to put money away to spend in the future must, unfortunately, make some sort of bet.

This is only true because of the fradulent fractional reserve fiat money system we have been subjected to which allows the central bankers to steal from the populace to enrich their banker friends. If it were not for money printing, the saver would not have to risk their savings just to preserve purchasing power.

Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#234

Post by lowkey »

throw0101a wrote: post #226
lowkey wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m exhausted by the fiat money scam 2% annual inflation over a 40 year career amounts to 40% less earnings. Inflation is theft. Bitcoin fixes this. No one has ever explained a better solution to inflation than Bitcoin. Fiat money printing is a scam that lets politicians spend more money without directly raising taxes. Bitcoin is honest sound money with a fixed inflation policy forever that cannot be manipulated by a…

> 2% annual inflation over a 40 year career amounts to 40% less earnings. Inflation is theft. Bitcoin fixes this. Try living with deflation. To paraphrase Churchill: an inflationary regime is the worst monetary system, except for all the others that have been tried. > Bitcoin is honest sound money with a fixed inflation policy forever that cannot be manipulated by any central actors. Not being able to manipulate the…

From the article, the two charts referenced don’t say what I think you were hoping they say.

The first chart claims to show how CPI fluctuated wildly on the gold standard, except if you read the * and footnote in the article you will see it discloses that the US actually went off the gold standard at the same time as the increase in inflation.

The second chart aims to show how low and stable CPI has been under the current fiat standard not backed by gold. However the chart is old and doesn’t include the recent CPI readings of 6.4% and 6.8% annualized inflation that were reported in the most recent 2 months by the BLS. In other words if chart 2 were continued to today they would include spikes of 3x, not exactly the narrative someone arguing in favor of the current system would want to show.

I don’t buy your argument that allowing a handful of central bankers to manipulate the money supply and print money out of thin air, is a good thing.

Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#235

Post by md_ »

lowkey wrote: post #233
md_ wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m always a bit surprised when people seem to imply that there’s a fundamental human right to perfectly stable stores of value (if you could even define such a quality), and that the absence of that—inflation, price fluctuation, etc—is somehow unfair. Gold bugs like to say that “value” is what gold is worth, but if you look at the real value of gold over time—in terms of its ability to be exchanged for things that y…

> I’m always a bit surprised when people seem to imply that there’s a fundamental human right to perfectly stable stores of value If it were not for central bankers printing money into existence, a person could work their life, save a portion for retirement in a bank account or other fixed income product, while enjoying a positive return on their investment, without taking on market risk of loss of funds. I don’t thi…

“If it were not for central bankers printing money into existence, a person could work their life, save a portion for retirement in a bank account or other fixed income product, while enjoying a positive return on their investment, without taking on market risk of loss of funds.”

Hmm. How would that work?

Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#236

Post by Thiez »

md_ wrote: post #235
lowkey wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m always a bit surprised when people seem to imply that there’s a fundamental human right to perfectly stable stores of value If it were not for central bankers printing money into existence, a person could work their life, save a portion for retirement in a bank account or other fixed income product, while enjoying a positive return on their investment, without taking on market risk of loss of funds. I don’t thi…

“If it were not for central bankers printing money into existence, a person could work their life, save a portion for retirement in a bank account or other fixed income product, while enjoying a positive return on their investment, without taking on market risk of loss of funds.” Hmm. How would that work?

Yes, it's very mysterious. If everybody put their money in the bank they would all be guaranteed a positive return on their investment, but there is no inflation and the money supply is fixed. So where does the money come from?

Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#237

Post by lowkey »

md_ wrote: post #235
lowkey wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m always a bit surprised when people seem to imply that there’s a fundamental human right to perfectly stable stores of value If it were not for central bankers printing money into existence, a person could work their life, save a portion for retirement in a bank account or other fixed income product, while enjoying a positive return on their investment, without taking on market risk of loss of funds. I don’t thi…

“If it were not for central bankers printing money into existence, a person could work their life, save a portion for retirement in a bank account or other fixed income product, while enjoying a positive return on their investment, without taking on market risk of loss of funds.” Hmm. How would that work?

I mean it already works like that in cryptocurrency today. Look at the rates paid on stablecoins. For example look at UST a US dollar stablecoin. It currently pays 19.4% APY on savings. There are risks but for 2% on Nexus Mutual you can be insured against a failure of the dollar peg or a failure in the smart contract. The net yield on a USD pegged stablecoin with insurance is 17.4% - handily beating inflation risk-free.

If the central bankers couldn’t print money you could beat inflation with any bank account.

Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#238

Post by NicoJuicy »

randomhodler84 wrote: post #229
NicoJuicy wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone uses lightning. I suppose that's what you're insinuating?

No, we are talking onchain. Lightning would be practically nothing. Fractions of a cent.

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees...

1,7$ at the moment, which isn't much. I used to remember it much higher.

But for me, a wire transfer is free though ( Belgium - European transfers, also suppliers swallow transaction fees)

Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#239

Post by swarnie »

davidgerard wrote: post #231
dlubarov wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want USDT, you can trade SOL/BUSD instead. The order book may be a little thinner, but not a big deal if you're not moving millions. While you might claim that BUSD isn't real money, you can just immediately withdraw it as fiat in your bank account, as long as Binance remains solvent. Or if you're still uncomfortable with BUSD for whatever reason, just trade e.g. SOL/USD on Coinbase.

I am talking about USD, not about stablecoins, and particularly not about stablecoins on tether exchanges. You are not refuting in any way whatsoever my point about the serious lack of actual-money liquidity for your favourite coin. What is the depth of SOL against USD? Not against USDT, not against BUSD, but against actual-money dollars?

We really need to stop using the term stablecoins

ScamCoin maybe?

Re: Bitcoin Failed in El Salvador. The President Says the Answer Is More Bitcoin

#240

Post by md_ »

lowkey wrote: post #237
md_ wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“If it were not for central bankers printing money into existence, a person could work their life, save a portion for retirement in a bank account or other fixed income product, while enjoying a positive return on their investment, without taking on market risk of loss of funds.” Hmm. How would that work?

I mean it already works like that in cryptocurrency today. Look at the rates paid on stablecoins. For example look at UST a US dollar stablecoin. It currently pays 19.4% APY on savings. There are risks but for 2% on Nexus Mutual you can be insured against a failure of the dollar peg or a failure in the smart contract. The net yield on a USD pegged stablecoin with insurance is 17.4% - handily beating inflation risk-fr…

Where do you think the zero-risk interest comes from?
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