Web3? I have my DAOts • Hacker News Board

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#231

Post by rasengan » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 3:56 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #99

OK. The reason all this happening is that Bitcoin really did go to the moon. That's what powers all this speculation. If the price of Bitcoin had been stable for a decade, and it worked reliably, it would be a useful medium of exchange, but nobody would care. This is all about MAKE MONEY FAST. Bitcoin found some early use cases. Drugs first. Then getting money out of China. Money laundering. Tax evasion. Scams. Bitco…

Prior to COVID-19, there were protests going on in 16 different countries. Fast forward to today, there are still protests going on globally [1]. The US has printed more money in the past 2 years than ever before [2]. At least half the country believes an election was "stolen" [3]. Ghislaine Maxwell is on trial while being linked to some of the most powerful people in the world [4].

Whether or not you agree with the different thoughts people have about any of these things, I think it's possible that there's in fact a movement into Bitcoin borne out of more than just "greed," but instead, fear and hedging.

I agree that there are a lot of horrible shit coin projects out there, but there are also several blockchain projects utilizing the new technology for its intrinsic value of decentralization and what that affords.

Hillary Clinton seems to believe that cryptocurrencies are about nation state vs the next social mechanism [5]. It's likely true, and that change is being brought forth by blockchain. Books changed the world. Churches changed the world. Radio and TVs changed the world. The Internet began to decentralize it... and blockchain is finishing the job.

[1] https://i.redd.it/8csx4xepjm381.png

[2] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL

[3] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/24/republicans-...

[4] https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/12/06/nyregion/ghislaine-m...

[5] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-19/cryptocur...

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#232

Post by ShamelessC » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 3:57 AM UTC

throw_nbvc1234 wrote: post #135

daoismyname wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> If you create a "web3" website, it's up to you how decentralized you want that experience to be > and this is new, how? It's not about decentralization, it's about decentralized trust. Why would you give someone's random website (or random gofundme) $1k? Maybe that decision would change if there was a smart contract which forced them to spend the money how you expected.

Trust in the real world can't be automated unfortunately.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#233

Post by xur17 » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 3:59 AM UTC

zepto wrote: post #228

xur17 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Echoing GP, I also do not find sending crypto to be all that nerve wracking. I frankly find sending a wire to be a lot more stressful (since I understand it a lot less well).

Unlike with crypto where the money is always lost forever, mistakes with wires can usually be corrected. If you don’t understand Wires then you may be unaware of this.

My understanding was that wires were quite difficult to reverse, and it's ACH transfers that can be reversed.

Regardless, the reversibility aspect has both positives and negatives. It does allow you to reverse transactions, but with the added complexity of the transaction not really settling until after that reversibility period passes. If I receive a crypto transfer (ex: a stablecoin), I can know that the money is actually mine within a few minutes, and can't be taken back. There are major benefits to that.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#234

Post by paulgb » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 4:01 AM UTC

netheril96 wrote: post #207

cblconfederate wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's how i felt about social networking. People posting their breakfast, ridiculous. Baby pictures, silly. Cat pictures, kids these days. Yet somehow the vanity/reality show is making billions 10 years later

I remember how Hacker News laughed at Facebook during its IPO. Hacker News are also against Google, TikTok, Snap, Instagram all the time. Investing against the popular opinions of Hacker News is an easy way to get rich.

I found the FB thread because I’m always curious how predictions on here pan out. I haven’t read every comment but I’d disagree with the perception that they were laughed at; the consensus seemed to be mildly positive.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3540158

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#235

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 4:02 AM UTC

malermeister wrote: post #57

rglover wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How does it deal with data you absolutely do _NOT_ want to be shared and propagated around? That is censorship. The correct answer is you don't. When you obscure evil, it propagates. When you shine a light on it, it disinfects. Awareness of the thing leads to discernment of the thing. Unless you think people are default evil, bad ideas will stay bad ideas without an intermediary forcing their will upon them.

That is an incredibly naive view of the world. Just look at all the disinformation rampant on Facebook and the antivax hellscape we now live in. You can't possibly look at that and think things got "disinfected" through awareness. > Unless you think people are default evil, bad ideas will stay bad ideas without an intermediary forcing their will upon them. This is also not correct. People aren't neccessarily evil by…

[deleted]

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#236

Post by shagie » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 4:03 AM UTC

serverholic wrote: post #90

shagie wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The potential for doxing in this is... so here's your identity so that you can be the same individual on multiple sites. Someone else posts into the blockchain that jondoe.eth public_key "420abc..." is {this real data about the person}. And now that identity and every login it is associated with has been doxed in a permeant, public, and unalterable way. If someone doxes my gmail account, I can go through the process…

To be clear, signing-in doesn’t trigger a transaction. So people can’t publicly see where you have logged in. Also it’s up to you how you use the system. You could have a number of online persona’s each with it’s own login.

This isn't about transactions or being able to see where you're logged in from.

This is about having a public, centralized source of identities that cannot be erased.

Yes, you can have multiple identities on it - but if an identity on that chain is doxed, it is forever doxed.

If you are maintaining one identity per application... then what is the advantage of having the identity in a place where it can be accessed by multiple applications?

I have difficulty seeing the advantage of a public, append only, identity provider compared to say... setting up your own auth server on AWS and managing your identities out of there.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#237

Post by darkFunction » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 4:03 AM UTC

dperfect wrote: post #78

I completely agree with the author. I've been reading a lot about the EVM, and while there's some interesting technology involved, it feels unlikely to be able to support any worthwhile applications outside of blockchain finance or moving $ around the world[0] (since the code can really only directly reference the blockchain itself). It's a bit like playing with a programming language in a sandbox that has (1) has no…

> (1) has no I/O functions

Input: User identity, money.

Output: Digital services, site subscriptions, digital assets, in-game items, NFT's representing real world assets held by trusted companies (wine, event tickets, tokenized securities).

None of this requires oracles and exists today.

Your mistake is thinking that just because the base layer is decentralised that we're somehow not allowed to connect to companies we choose to trust, just like we all already do.

Then it becomes interesting because there's a programmable market for these assets/services that didn't previously exist because the underlying value was not represented in an exchangable form. The outputs are also inputs.

Ethereum is the trustless, standardised substrate on which trusting parties can interact.

HackerNews will continue to fail to see the utility of this system for years to come until it's mature and undeniable. It will be an interesting case study into how experts missed the potential of emergent technology in the same way we look back on yesterday's commentators not realising the disruption of Amazon or the internet.

As to your second point, it's unlikely the end user will ever want to transact on layer 1. Layer 2 technology is making steady progress. See l2beat.com for examples.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#238

Post by hirsin » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 4:04 AM UTC

roca wrote: post #136

Uehreka wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said this in another comment on this post, but check out ENS. I’ve been a blockchain skeptic for a long time (and still am about art NFTs and most other things) but the idea of “SSO without a company attached” feels like something the mainstream public actually does want (think of all the negative public sentiment around big tech companies harvesting data and the grudging acceptance people have of their dependence…

Mozilla's Persona project solved federated ID for the Web pretty well, a decade ago. The problem is that a lot of the big tech companies want to completely own their relationships with their users. Google is never going to let you log in with something other than a Google ID, etc. There is no technical way to solve this problem.

I mean, no, but they do let you sign in with a non Gmail address. (My @microsoft.com is a consumer Google account. Same way my @gmail personal email is a consumer Microsoft account.)

Means of contact end up being a pretty useful way of organizing identities (phone numbers have their issues) and having ways to fix mistakes. The one thing I haven't seen solved in web3 is communication to a user. Easy enough to encrypt messages in ipfs though, I suppose.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#239

Post by netheril96 » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 4:05 AM UTC

paulgb wrote: post #234

netheril96 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember how Hacker News laughed at Facebook during its IPO. Hacker News are also against Google, TikTok, Snap, Instagram all the time. Investing against the popular opinions of Hacker News is an easy way to get rich.

I found the FB thread because I’m always curious how predictions on here pan out. I haven’t read every comment but I’d disagree with the perception that they were laughed at; the consensus seemed to be mildly positive. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3540158

Facebook stock dropped a lot after IPO. That is when Hacker News laughed at it. People rejoiced that the evil company was abandoned by the market. Sorry I cannot find out the exact post.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#240

Post by didibus » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 4:08 AM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #113

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is Bitcoin no longer being pushed as a currency? Is that “official”?

I mean there’s very little you’ll find as an official spokesperson for Bitcoin but yeah, the dream of on-chain transactions being used for anything other than a funny speculative asset is pretty much gone. It’s actually kinda crazy in a “voting yourself money” kinda way. Because as long as people believe that BTC should always increase in value then in the long run the returns should gravitate toward something like t…

> The downside of course is that unlike normal investments they don’t spur the real life economic growth necessary to sustain that inflation

Wouldn't it indirectly, because people trade bitcoins for USD most of the time, and that USD you'd assume eventually goes to buy products or services?