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Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

reuters.com

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Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#231

Post by adrr »

claytongulick wrote: post #173
adrr wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greater good of society out weighs people's individual rights. These are basic constitutional tenets. Why you can't yell fire in a crowded theater even though you have the right to free speech. Why the SCOTUS has ruled vaccine mandates are constitutional.

"Greater good" has been the justification for the worst atrocities committed in history. Be careful about so willingly giving up your right to self-ownership. You may not ever get it back.

Greater good is what it makes it possible to have individual rights. Imagine if you had an absolute right to free speech. You could write or speak anything without legal recourse. Trademark law and copyright law wouldn’t work. Fraud wouldn’t be prosecutable.

Apply that to other rights like the right to bear arms. If government couldn’t set standards and people could procure any weapon, how does society function? How does air travel even exist with people owning anti aircraft missiles.

That’s why our founders made our constitution a living document with courts interpreting the constitution and balancing individual rights with our collective rights.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#232

Post by kelnos »

bko wrote: post #160
DSMan195276 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no mechanism to enforce this reasoning. It's whether the agency has the power to do it or not. For instance it could be argued that natural immunity is far superior to vaccines, so excluding healthcare workers with natural immunity from working is not about protecting patients. I'm not sure what you're getting at, Congress gave the agency the power to set guidelines for requirements for caring for medicaid/…

>> It seems to me like you just don't think medicare or medicaid should be a thing to begin with. Please don't ascribe beliefs or intentions to me that I didn't explicitly state. > Why should my tax dollars to go a healthcare provider who doesn't want to get the vaccine when that money can go to one who will? Medicare and Medicaid should be fee for treatment. Why shouldn't I be allowed to choose what provider I want…

> We should allow people to choose what health care provider is right for them based on their constraints and not restrict options.

Disagree. If I'm footing the bill for that care (as a taxpayer) I expect to have a say in what constitutes minimum quality of care.

And allowing unvaccinated healthcare workers to treat patients is reckless, and falls well below that minimum quality bar.

(I would also accept healthcare workers with natural immunity, assuming we can establish some sort of testable minimum antibody level that confers a similar level of protection as a vaccine.)

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#234

Post by AnimalMuppet »

verall wrote: post #99
dahfizz wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Too often we look at the end results (e.g. will this increase vaccination rates) rather than the means of getting there. Strongly agree. Tangentially, I felt this way about net neutrality. It should have been law passed by Congress. Instead, everyone cheered when an unelected executive board passed a net neutrality bill that the public wasn't allowed to read. And then, everyone had the audacity to be surprised when…

Because the chance of a net neutrality bill making it through the Senate is roughly equivalent to guessing Satoshi's wallet. We can barely pass debt ceiling increases to avoid national default. The net neutrality PR did work though, the FCC was under a lot of pressure . ATT didn't pay all of those marketing firms to fraudulently post thousands of anti-net-neutrality comments for nothing.

OK, but then the answer is to fix Congress, not to bypass it.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#235

Post by dang »

mikebonnell wrote: post #14
swader999 wrote: post #4

At least one of the branches of government is working.

Yes, the executive branch is functioning again after 4 years of idiocy.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#236

Post by everyoneloves84 »

Isthatablackgsd wrote: post #150
cies wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banning health care providers from abortion would be unconstitutional. Forcing care workers to take a medicine against their will is constitutional you say? All medical procedures should be voluntary, or we go back to the times of lobotomy and forced sterilizations of minorities (and that's not as many decades back as you may think). > Government can and has jailed and/or fined people for not getting a vaccine. Thi…

> Forcing care workers to take a medicine against their will is constitutional you say? They are not forced to take the medicine. They are given an choice to take the vaccine or find another job. If they refused to take the vaccine, that is their choice, period. They cannot claimed they are being forced because they are given an choice in the first place. They are given a free will with their decision. Thousands of T…

> They are given an choice to take the vaccine or find another job.

Interesting line of argument. So, if my boss says: "have sex with me or lose your job", is that freedom of choice or blackmail?

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#237

Post by lpcvoid »

Vaccines should not be a personal freedom choice. They are a life saving invention, where did we go as a society that this is suddenly up for debate? Did people forget that we eradicated Polio, Tetanus, Hepatitis etc? Where does this sudden influx of people come from that are opposed to this absolute incredible work of science?

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#238

Post by sjwalter »

driverdan wrote: post #130
cies wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banning health care providers from abortion would be unconstitutional. Forcing care workers to take a medicine against their will is constitutional you say? All medical procedures should be voluntary, or we go back to the times of lobotomy and forced sterilizations of minorities (and that's not as many decades back as you may think). > Government can and has jailed and/or fined people for not getting a vaccine. Thi…

> Forcing care workers to take a medicine against their will is constitutional you say? They are not forced. They can choose to find another job if they don't want it.

So silly. "Comply with us or you lose your job" is only semantics away from "forced". Especially galling since:

a) Many frontline workers have superior natural immunity anyway.

b) We're in a pandemic and this nuclear option ensures we have fewer healthcare workers, not more ("fewer workers to make the curve more impactful!")

c) Not a year ago these were our heros and saviours, and now they're villains for failing to comply. LOL

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#240

Post by ghoward »

wayoutthere wrote: post #159
bko wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. It is a political decision to force 2 million Americans to get a vaccine that they don't want under threat of not being allowed to work in their profession. If you disagree with the decision at least you can vote the bastards out. You're acting like its a trivial procedural matter. These people obviously feel very strongly about it since they're under immense pressure everywhere to get it and they still r…

This is absolute horseshit. Government regulation of public health during a pandemic is absolutely its role. We have required a great number of vaccines for the last 100 years. The coronavirus vaccines are some of the most-tested out there. Anti-vaxxing was a fringe position that nobody took seriously before Covid. The only reason this virus is remotely political is because we had a demagogue in the president’s offic…

> The coronavirus vaccines are some of the most-tested out there.

"Most-tested" does not imply "best-tested" or even "well-tested." See, for example, how code coverage for tests can be misleading.

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