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Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this premise is correct; I don’t know of any evidence that courts accord any special status to Docusign’d documents, over other ways of electronically signing contracts. The concept doesn’t even make sense to me… Docusign is not attesting to the contracts they manage. They’re not an automated notary. They’re just facilitating something that anyone can do themselves: electronically sign a contract. There…

I'm almost afraid to ask since it's such a given, but do employees actually get fired for choosing the wrong vendor? I've heard it repeated in quite a few contexts, and I'm unsure if I should interpret it literally. At worst, I would expect the executive has a slightly tarnished reputation for picking what ended up being a bad partner.

I'm not an employee, and didn't exactly get fired -- but I chose a cloud vendor for a client that seemed like the best choice at the time, with what I knew. The client was over-the-moon happy that we had found something to satisfy his needs. After switching, his costs went down dramatically, and his downtime went to zero (from rather high, which is why he brought me in). He was happy to sign a contract with the vendor

Then, about two months later, the client got into an accelerator, where they got free AWS credits. Suddenly, my choice didn't seem as good -- mostly because paying nothing is cheaper than paying something. (Never mind that the vendor I had gone with had stellar service, which was one of the reasons we chose them.)

The client told the cloud provider that I had been unauthorized to speak on the company's behalf (untrue), that no one had told him we were signing a contract (not true), and tried to wiggle out of the contract (which went nowhere). That didn't go anywhere. So he got angry with me, and canceled our consulting agreement.

As it happens, that client was simultaneously trying to figure out how to pay for taxes and pensions, and was getting rid of some other people. So it wasn't a direct cause-and-effect. But it did happen.

And this is yet another reason why I've been delighted to get out of the "regular" consulting world, and switch to only doing training.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this premise is correct; I don’t know of any evidence that courts accord any special status to Docusign’d documents, over other ways of electronically signing contracts. The concept doesn’t even make sense to me… Docusign is not attesting to the contracts they manage. They’re not an automated notary. They’re just facilitating something that anyone can do themselves: electronically sign a contract. There…

I haven't read all the legislation in the world on this, but DocuSign has. They have been summarising legislation into their knowledge base, and proudly showing off claims that they satisfy the requirements on their country-specific homepages. For example their page on Australian laws is here https://www.docusign.com/how-it-works/legality/global/austra... , and it summarises (almost verbatim) the Electronic Transacti…

Germany differentiates between "Schriftform" and "Textform". The former is "paper, hand signed" or "qualifizierte elektronische Signatur" (qualified electronic signature), the latter "basically SMS and up" (notably excluding voice, AFAIK even if recorded).

This has (just searched for a link) been turned into EU law under the term "eIDAS Regulation" [0].

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_electronic_signature

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#233
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm almost afraid to ask since it's such a given, but do employees actually get fired for choosing the wrong vendor? I've heard it repeated in quite a few contexts, and I'm unsure if I should interpret it literally. At worst, I would expect the executive has a slightly tarnished reputation for picking what ended up being a bad partner.

I'm not an employee, and didn't exactly get fired -- but I chose a cloud vendor for a client that seemed like the best choice at the time, with what I knew. The client was over-the-moon happy that we had found something to satisfy his needs. After switching, his costs went down dramatically, and his downtime went to zero (from rather high, which is why he brought me in). He was happy to sign a contract with the vendo…

> switch to only doing training

Tell us more about this transition? Sounds interesting!

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#234

Because the market is batshit insane right now. Been investing for 30 years (started right after the Savings and Loan Scandal bust in the late 80's), and the insanity dwarfs the Dot Com bubble. People who don't understand the basics of investing always joke about how it is a casino, and that was always a little true, but now it is massively true.

What advice would you give today for someone who is sitting on some cash but looks to begin investing it?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#235
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems ridiculously insecure for those to be accepted. Given just one signed document, a fraudster could copy and paste your signature into literally any number of other documents.

The whole industry is a farce. Nobody will do anything until after someone abuses it in a high profile case.

I agree but wet ink signatures can be forged too. Signatures alone do not make a transaction non-repudiable. High value deals are also secured by public notaries, agents, government clerks, and even attorneys.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#236
DocuSign is obviously crap. When I first encountered it, I couldn’t believe that anyone took it seriously. The only security is that you got the document at your email address.

My brother was scammed as a result of this lax security. A crooked business partner set up a plausible email address for him, and took out a loan in his name. He only found out when he started getting notices about missed loan payments.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#237
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What scam companies are worth trillions?

He thinks Tesla is a complete scam for one thing... Probably not a good idea to spend time on any of his comments.

Scam is the wrong word... Mispriced and intentional pumped would be two more accurate ones.

A company which produces 1% of all global cars is worth more then the companies who produce 90% combined? Sounds legit.

Next you'll be telling me a company which has only shipped 160 trucks to employees is worth 100bn... Oh wait...

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#238

DocuSign is obviously crap. When I first encountered it, I couldn’t believe that anyone took it seriously. The only security is that you got the document at your email address. My brother was scammed as a result of this lax security. A crooked business partner set up a plausible email address for him, and took out a loan in his name. He only found out when he started getting notices about missed loan payments.

How did it go fighting that fake loan?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#239
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I haven't personally but I'm assuming that you have. If that is the case did you end up hiring a private detective and security force to remediate your circumstance?

I did not, but only because in my case the monetary damage was not sufficient to pursue it. I would have liked to have seen those responsible be prosecuted for it, though. If the monetary damage was high enough vis-a-vis the ability of the public system to deliver me restitution for my losses, I'd very quickly be hiring private detectives yes.

How do you imagine the outcome would have been different in a hypothetical world with an entirely privatized justice system?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#240
post #99
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm ok, well while I don't think Tesla can really be called a scam I definitely think it's overvalued

Can we talk about Dogecoin and similar ?

We could bring up a million shitcoins and scams but then we'd be here all day.

If you really want to chuck a hand grenade at the crypto-cultists ask them to rationalise Tether.

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