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Crypto Wash Trading

arxiv.org

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Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#231

Post by SilasX »

sabujp wrote: post #202

There's also "legal" wash trading, e.g. the same institution/person putting in large BTC spot buy orders and then shorting the BTC future. This is how companies like crypto.com, celsius, blockfi, etc are now able to give investors 8%+ on their USDC because the investors need the cash for expensive futures contracts. The companies loan the cash out to hedge funds at high interest rates, take a cut, and give the rest t…

There’s a greater than 8% yield between the spot price and the future delivery price?

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#233

Post by dqpb »

brianwawok wrote: post #30
dragontamer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you trade a any security to yourself (or someone closely related to you) to give the illusion of the price going up. (EDIT: Well... it could be for any reason. But illusion of price going up is one such application of the strategy). Lets say you invent a new NFT. You sell the NFT to __yourself__ for $100. Then, you sell the NFT to yourself (again) for $200. Finally, you sell the NFT to yourself for $1000. Then y…

You do NOT need to change the prices for it to be a wash trade. What you gave me a profitable and likely illegal example of a wash trade, but not a definition of wash trade. A wash trade could be selling thing X for $100 and buying thing Y for $100 where X and Y are the same exact underlying thing. Just moving pointless trades back and forth inflates volumes, which makes people thing the market is moving. See https:/…

Transferring money/assets between your accounts is a pretty normal thing to do…

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#234

Post by jacobr1 »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #196
joshfraser wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not open at night. They take egregious fees, often up to 20% on the exchange rate. You can't send more than $2,500 online. And who wants to stand in line, fill out paperwork, or walk around with large sums of cash? If that exploitative company is the best example you've got, I rest my case.

You wrote: > I find this hard to believe. Can you please demonstrate a single transaction with this fee?

They usually have both a flat-rate transition fee, and some spread they take on top of whatever open market exchange rate would otherwise be.

For small transactions, you can have things like a $29 fee, for a $500 transaction, where the spread is also taking a 1% cut. You also can find $2.99 transactions. It depends on the source of funds and destination. Also if you are doing something like using a credit card as the source of funds, you might get cash-advance fees (and much worse interest rates).

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#235

Post by yrral »

gillesjacobs wrote: post #118

This paper jumps the gun. Detecting wash trading by examining distributions over rounded order prices is a strong and dubious claim for which they provide little evidence. The author's equate wash trading to non-rounded, clustered prices which really just indicates automated trading. Now automated ("bot") trading is a technology needed for exchanges wash trading sure, but not exclusive evidence of it. Automated tradi…

It's also very disingenuous for the title to say that 70% of the volume in the top crypto exchanges is wash trading when the 70% category they define are the least popular exchanges (they rank worse than 960 on the finance section of similarweb).

Even more so because the regulated exchange and popular unregulated exchanges have 0 and mostly <20% wash trading respectively.

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#236

Post by casi18 »

santiagobasulto wrote: post #209
gillesjacobs wrote: post #118

This paper jumps the gun. Detecting wash trading by examining distributions over rounded order prices is a strong and dubious claim for which they provide little evidence. The author's equate wash trading to non-rounded, clustered prices which really just indicates automated trading. Now automated ("bot") trading is a technology needed for exchanges wash trading sure, but not exclusive evidence of it. Automated tradi…

I came looking for your comment. Someone applying some common sense to the “research”. Yet, the post has >400 points. Feels like these days anybody can post a paper and get uncountable widespread with 0 backings for their research. In nutrition this happens A LOT. Things like: “meat causes cancer in 70% of the population”. And then you read the paper and they did the study on 80 people between 60-90 years old. There’…

you can make something up at the speed of thought. refuting it takes time and effort. peer-reviewing even longer.

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#237

Post by tommek4077 »

bluGill wrote: post #223
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Automated trading strategies (e.g., "grid trading") are really popular Why? After buying and selling side fees, is it easy to make a profit in an automated way with crypto?

I don't know, but it seems to be. In general though, if there are easy profits to make it is because someone on the other side is willing to lose "a small amount of money" for a long time knowing that when things change they will make a ton of money fast, on the backs of all the people they lost to. For starters, if you can make money in automated trading, why would you not make all the possible money yourself instea…

Because the retail market is big. If you personally buy or sell, you don't care for the "perfect" price.

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#238

Post by xboxnolifes »

cblconfederate wrote: post #174
SavantIdiot wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is: (a) if I don't trust "computers" it absolutely can because I can use deposit box, and (b) the government guarantees that it is via FDIC insurance plus a long list of legal alternatives if it suddenly isn't there. Crypto has neither (a) nor (b); it is specifically designed to not have (a), and I don't see it having a (b) any time soon since regulation is anathema. I see your point. Both are ledgers.…

you can store your private keys printed inside a deposit box if you don't trust computers (which you shouldn't). Nobody guarantees bitcoin, but insurance companies will always exist.

Ultimately you need to trust the blockchain, which runs on computers. Which is the commenter's point.

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#239

Post by Uehreka »

ishjoh wrote: post #172
abakker wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Digital ownership of a token. Digital assets can still be copied and distributed. Notions of ownership and title in digital are still inherently problematic. 2. This is probably not a feature society needs. 3. Possibly good? I'd say instead of "low trust" being the feature, "no natural owner of the database" describes the supply chain situation better. 4. maybe. USD, Gold, Etc have historically been good at this.

> Digital assets can still be copied and distributed. Notions of ownership and title in digital are still inherently problematic Some NFTs come with additional publishing rights for the underlying asset. For example Eminems sold an NFT that contained to the rights and a different rapper bought it to make a song with it: https://bitcoinist.com/the-rapper-who-bought-eminems-nft-for... I think we're going to see more st…

If someone sells the NFT and publishing rights to a work at the same time… couldn’t they just sell the publishing rights? It’s like you’re buying the publishing rights and getting a receipt for your purchase and people are acting like the receipt is the big deal.

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#240

Post by tommek4077 »

wombatpm wrote: post #224
MrMan wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Python ... Subsecond latencies Ok

Bitcoin transactions with sub second latency Double ok

You dont trade on the blockchain. We build software that does multi hundred millions orders per day. Millions of trades. But of course, not in python.
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