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Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

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Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#231

Post by ridaj »

orforforof wrote: post #79
dQw4w9WgXcQ wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the speed of motorcycles without the sound awareness, what could possibly go wrong? My overall experience is that E-bike riders generally have decent cycling manners, it's the scooter and unicycle riders that seem to think they can just crank their walking speed up to 30mph and go everywhere a pedestrian would. I usually just give them a firm "heads up next time" when I get buzzed by an electric motor whine at 20…

I used to ride a motorcycle, now I have an ebike. They seem equally safe to me, which is to say neither are safe at all if there are other people on the road. The only solution is extremely defensive driving/riding, assume no one (including pedestrians) can see you. This attitude has been embedded deeply in the motorcycle culture and is the best way to all-around responsible riders -- and it needs to be propagated to…

Yes the problem with ebikes isn't other people being aware of the bike's sound, it's the rider being aware of the risk to themselves and others. Maybe this is ingrained in the motorcycle culture, but it seems like most buyers of ebikes I know have never ridden a motorcycle before and were not riding bicycles regularly either. They just go "oh this makes my commute like that time I biked when I was on vacation" and approach safety with a lackadaisical attitude. That makes them relatively irresponsible riders in my opinion. This problem hopefully fixes itself over time as they learn from accidents and an ebike safety culture emerges, but for now it's pretty sad.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#232

Post by dncornholio »

jacquesm wrote: post #216
dncornholio wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E bikes also have a dial, all it does is it limits the speed when it stops accelerating. You can dial the bike all the way up, peddle but not apply any force and still accelerate to top speed.

Where I live that would be illegal for an e-bike, that vehicle would be classified as an e-scooter.

Doesn't any Batavus E-Bike does this? That's were I got my (limited) experience from.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#233

Post by Animats »

mikepurvis wrote: post #115
hendersoon wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your country, really. Throttle ebikes are legal in the USA so long as they don't go faster than 20MPH on throttle alone. And really speed is what matters here. Who cares if it's pedal-assist or throttle so long as you aren't going markedly faster than normal people without any motor at all? There's no safety concern.

At a certain point, you've added enough extra mass to the vehicle in terms of batteries, motor, beefed up brakes and frame, etc that you need to start asking questions about how much kinetic energy it's carrying and what happens to it all in case of a crash. Silly comparison, but we wouldn't let a car drive on the sidewalk even if it had a special module that limited it to 5km/h.

Yes. Maybe a stopping-distance requirement. Many "e-bikes" are under-braked and under-tired for their speed and mass.

Big-tire "e-bikes" with disk brakes are really light motorcycles. Forget the pedals and admit it.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#234

Post by jacquesm »

gtirloni wrote: post #222
jacquesm wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are velomobiles here, and also e-bike versions of those that go wicked fast. They also ride on the bike paths. I think they're quite dangerous because they are so low that you are riding below the height of a car hood (or a mirror for that matter). Here is a picture of one: http://dutchbikes.nl/artwork2/kv4/passing.jpg and a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAcy7EVRpXc

I think it's insane this is allowed on the streets without a license or anything. I'm afraid of riding my regular bike if there's no bike lanes, let alone something like this in the middle of all the cars. Insane.

Agreed, they are very dangerous. But there very few of them (because people realize they are dangerous).

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#235

Post by jacquesm »

jbluepolarbear wrote: post #203
TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

We really need a terminology to differentiate better between pedal-assist only e-bikes ("pedelec") and electric motorbikes. A "bicycle" that can accelerate without the need to pedal at all is an electric motorcycle, no matter if you put pedal on it or not. I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all…

Where I grew up a bike with a motor and pedals was a moped and was legal to drive without license if under 50cc. They’re still considered bikes.

Here too, but today you would need a license for those. Ditto with my bike, you can't ride it without a drivers license.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#236

Post by wing-_-nuts »

stevesearer wrote: post #43
ngngngng wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An added benefit for hunters is that deer aren't afraid of the sound of bikes. Similar to cars, they just don't care. It's much easier to approach a deer on bike than on foot.

These particular roads are also closed to normal vehicle traffic (autos and OHV). I will be interested to see if E-Bikes end up being included in the motorized category in the future and therefore not allowed on these roads. There is some debate locally as to whether they should be allowed on normal trails which are already off-limits to motorized vehicles (but OK for standard bikes).

My father actually inquired on this to my local state agency. Technically an ebike is considered a motorized vehicle by the state and is not allowed on trails that prohibit motorized vehicles. I say technically, because I'm pretty damned sure no game warden is going to give you a ticket for riding an ebike. If it looks like a bike, and rides like a bike, and you're not riding above bike speeds, I think you're safe.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#237

Post by jacquesm »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #207
jacquesm wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't. These bikes are DRM'd to the hilt and any attempt at hacking them will cause the bike to brick itself which you can only reset at the dealership. You can do that three times and then it's permanent. The penalties for having such a hack detected on your bike - assuming you would get away with it - is confiscation. I would strongly advise against such tricks. You can see how much work just changing out the b…

>but they're all illegal and you are uninsured when using such a device. My bike is perfectly legal to ride. Plenty of people 'technically' break the law in small ways every day. If your bike looks like a normal bike, and you're not doing outlandish speeds, I'm not sure it matters whether or not your bike is 'technically legal'.

Right up to the point when you cause and accident, it turns out that you are not insured and you are now in debt for the rest of your life. This is not a small matter.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#238

Post by m4x »

rjbwork wrote: post #145
jacquesm wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA the situation is much more risky than here. I don't like riding in traffic mostly because drivers tend to have a short fuse for anything that isn't exactly at the limit, but on bike paths everything works just fine. The problem is that s-pedelecs are technically lumped in with the scooters, even though there is no throttle and there is absolutely no way you are going to sustain 40 Kph+ for anything but a v…

I have an e-bike and I disagree with your assertions. I'm a fat asthmatic and I have absolutely no problem maintaining 40kph for long stretches of time on my bike. The fastest I've done on it (on a large hill but still) is 42.7MPH (~68Kph). Average cruising speed on flat land can easily be 30-33mph(48-53kph). Not all e-bikes are capable of this, but they are certainly not some kind of rare expensive impossibility - m…

I'm curious - what ebike do you have that can easily cruise at 48-53 kph for extended periods?

In most countries that would be far above the legal limits imposed on ebikes. As a result, the ebikes available for purchase are all limited to 25-32 kph max and typically have power limits of 250-300 W. Since ebikes are a lot heavier, exceeding 32 kph for more than a few seconds is generally very difficult.

I don't think GP is being disingenuous with any of his assertions. In the US there might be ebikes with much higher top speeds, but jacquesm doesn't live in the US and neither do most of the other people on this planet. Most ebikes sold do exactly what he's describing.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#239

Post by jacquesm »

gglanzani wrote: post #188
jacquesm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It weighs half that, including me, and the average speed over a longer trip is about 33 to 35 Kph. In cities you ride just as fast as the rest of the bike traffic, there isn't any point in trying to go faster, and top speed is rarely achieved, you'd need a 100% full battery and a rider in very good condition. More usual you'll be around 35 to 38 kph in open country where there is very little other traffic. My 'commut…

Using my Stromer ST1X — which lacks the top of the line motor of the ST3 and ST5 — I can bike at 45kph at any battery % above 30. I am probably 140kg with bike, battery, laptop, clothes, and stuff. Outside the cities I can go in the bike lane, and I am absolutely twice as fast as most bikes. I live in the Netherlands, so everything being flat helps.

That's a very neat bike and that motor is twice as strong as the one on the Bosch models. What kind of range do you get out of it at 45 kph?

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#240

Post by TrevorJ »

fragmede wrote: post #179
TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

We really need a terminology to differentiate better between pedal-assist only e-bikes ("pedelec") and electric motorbikes. A "bicycle" that can accelerate without the need to pedal at all is an electric motorcycle, no matter if you put pedal on it or not. I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all…

And scooters, electric-scooters, and sit-down electric scooters. And electric wheelchairs, and non-electric wheelchairs and mobility assist carts with handlebars. We also have to delineate between a daydreaming cyclist who's top speed is slow, and a hard-core cyclist with a $3000+ bike that can hit 40 mph in the right conditions. Those cyclists should be banned from using the same paths as the first kind of bicyclist…

Eh, this is just extending the argument into absurdity I feel.
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