People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices • Hacker News Board

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#231

Post by superposeur » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 2:28 PM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #186

Wait a minute... I thought I had internal monologue because I can hear myself speaking thoughts and myself talking to myself (it's like talking out loud but in your head) but reading some of the comments here it seems like people have multiple inner voices and that's what they mean by internal monologue ? I don't have inner voices, there's only me up there (and I do a lot of self pitying and most of the monologue is…

Interesting - I experience the opposite in that I can only hear imagined “dialogues” involving other people, but have no inner voice of my own. My emotional priorities dictate what the imagined drama is about and, to be sure, this is a whole lot of self-pity … but the voices have distinct identities and sounds, and none of them are “me”.

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#232

Post by johnchristopher » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

superposeur wrote: post #231

johnchristopher wrote: post #186

Wait a minute... I thought I had internal monologue because I can hear myself speaking thoughts and myself talking to myself (it's like talking out loud but in your head) but reading some of the comments here it seems like people have multiple inner voices and that's what they mean by internal monologue ? I don't have inner voices, there's only me up there (and I do a lot of self pitying and most of the monologue is…

Interesting - I experience the opposite in that I can only hear imagined “dialogues” involving other people, but have no inner voice of my own. My emotional priorities dictate what the imagined drama is about and, to be sure, this is a whole lot of self-pity … but the voices have distinct identities and sounds, and none of them are “me”.

Is it like you are listening to a radio talk show? And you have feelings based on what you hear? Or is "you" all of the voices? Are you actively playing the different parts or are they autonomous ?

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#233

Post by gala8y » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 2:37 PM UTC

josephg wrote: post #15

I started doing improv comedy classes a few years ago. It’s terrifying. My friends would share stories of what their inner critics were saying about their performances. “You were rubbish and everyone was knows it!”. It was weird for me - my mind doesn’t have a voice like that. “Hah maybe I don’t have an inner critic” I thought. But I still felt crippling shame after bad scenes in class. In quiet moments my mind is fu…

> I know now I do have an inner critic. It just speaks in my body with emotions like guilt and gut wrenching shame.

This is not exact science, I would say. It is good to have a basic understanding of plenitude of voices, some of them being delicate and fragile, some aggressive and dominating in nature and try to make ever better distinctions (which is which? which part of my behavior is which voice?). It is not that there is only me and my Inner Critic inside me. It is most likely that shame you're feeling after performance comes from a delicate self, which can be called your Vulnerable Child, rather than from your Inner Critic. Lots of sadness, anxiety, shame, retraction comes from such child-like selves (developed during your childhood and still existing functionally in the repertoire of your CNS). These emotions coming from this child like energy are very often accompanied by internalized aggressive energies critical of ourselves. The picture is nuanced, with many parts inside us, interacting with each other.

Accessing this Inner Child energy directly in conversation (sometimes with less words, more like evoking it and just being with it, especially at the beginning) is a profound experience with far reaching consequences (including, once you see it a separate entity inside you, possibility of taking care of this Inner Child by yourself, inside yourself - you just start to take care of this child, which is in fact you... taking care of... you.) It sounds ridiculous, but it is very real.

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#234

Post by JaimeThompson » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

agent327 wrote: post #208

JaimeThompson wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is called aphantasia and I have it too. I am totally unable to picture anything in my head despite trying for years.

How about abstract concepts? If I ask you to imagine something mathematical, like a circle in a square, do you 'see' anything?

Personally I see nothing no matter what I try to imagine. There are various degrees of it, some can "see" various amounts it seems.

This [1] is a decent place for more info.

[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/Aphantasia/

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#235

Post by towb » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 3:07 PM UTC

id wrote: post #97

towb wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh good. Think everyone here is trying themselves right now. I don't really see anything when I picture stuff in my head, it is more that I know how something looks or should look or could look and it's much less than a picture, but for sure more than words. And for the inner voice, I hear my own voice in my head, it's like I'm talking to myself all the time, like a crazy person. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>I hear my own voice in my head But you don't actually hear anything either, right? I mean, does it sound like a recording of you talking? Or is it you thinking in words / having an inner monologue (dialogue?)

It's not through the ears so it's different, it's not like talking with the vibrations and bass from the throat. It's a milder voice for me but it's still more like I'm hearing my voice than anything else I think.

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#236

Post by superposeur » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 3:54 PM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #232

superposeur wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting - I experience the opposite in that I can only hear imagined “dialogues” involving other people, but have no inner voice of my own. My emotional priorities dictate what the imagined drama is about and, to be sure, this is a whole lot of self-pity … but the voices have distinct identities and sounds, and none of them are “me”.

Is it like you are listening to a radio talk show? And you have feelings based on what you hear? Or is "you" all of the voices? Are you actively playing the different parts or are they autonomous ?

Yes like listening to a radio talk show or a scene in a play — the participants are sometimes real people I know or imagined people. They seem autonomous but when I think about the context of the whole scene, it’s often transparently and cringeworthily based on whatever concern I have —- “this week on the radio hour! A dialogue demonstrating that none of the participants appreciate Luke. Next week: everyone coming to the realization, in their own way, that this thing Luke came up with is the most brilliant thing ever! Stay tuned”

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#237

Post by johnchristopher » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 4:28 PM UTC

superposeur wrote: post #236

johnchristopher wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it like you are listening to a radio talk show? And you have feelings based on what you hear? Or is "you" all of the voices? Are you actively playing the different parts or are they autonomous ?

Yes like listening to a radio talk show or a scene in a play — the participants are sometimes real people I know or imagined people. They seem autonomous but when I think about the context of the whole scene, it’s often transparently and cringeworthily based on whatever concern I have —- “this week on the radio hour! A dialogue demonstrating that none of the participants appreciate Luke. Next week: everyone coming to…

It's fascinating !

Do you have some intrusive thoughts, like things you can't help thinking about and that you can't tune out ?

Do you control when those plays are happening or is it all the time ? Maybe in the background of your mind, like conversations in a cafe when you don't focus on it, and only when you decide to pay attention to it you do hear the conversation and the words ?

I wonder if in your case it's some kind of imagination going unbridled and you getting in the spectator's chair and in my case I don't have that kind of imagination anymore (or not the kind that invokes(?) those voices) and it has been tuned out/repressed for such a long time that there is now only one voice - mine - that I can hear ?

I also wonder what "listen to your inner voice" means to different people.

And the role schizophrenic thoughts played in our culture (`hearing voices`). Is there a connection ?

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#238

Post by gala8y » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 4:36 PM UTC

distances wrote: post #218

gala8y wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do most people mean "multiple voices" when they say "inner monologue" ? You will find different conceptualizations of this phenomena, but generally speaking it is very prolific to treat mind (term used imprecisely) as comprised of many sub-parts (sub-personalities/voices/selves/states). You can treat them as separate, functional patterns of behavior with their own agendas, feelings, beliefs, etc. The fun part is th…

The concept as described in the article is totally foreign to me. Would there be some upside of trying to awaken some additional inner voice? Is that even possible? I can easily speak in my mind, but it's just me, and I'm in total control. There are no other personas. I of course sometimes get spontaneous thoughts, sometimes even very unwanted ones, but they are my thoughts and I can easily dismiss them. I don't do d…

I would be very careful talking about personas, masks (this brings needless conversations). The most gentle way of describing it all is to talk about energies. You can be in a child-like playful energy, you can be in a 'focused on the task at hand, not minding emotions/people at all' energy. You can be in a (much discussed here) critical, judgmental energy directed towards you or others. You may or may not have access to your sensual/sexual energies.

So it is more about realizing these highly different kinds of energies or modus operandi are accessible to you (more easily than you can imagine) and finding out what status they have (Can I enjoy this kind of energy? Is it too strong in me, demonized, out of control? Unknown to me, dormant? Am I afraid of it?)

You seem (from my perspective and only from reading your comment) to be highly identified with a self which likes to be much in control and in Voice Dialogue (see below) is called Protector/Controller.

Once you realize nature of this process (many energies inside you) you can literally _talk_ to them (including Protector/Controler - being very important voice), but this is not required. Voice Dialogue is a method where one person talks with energies/voices of another person, but you may spend your whole life without any need to talk to your energies, simply being in this or that energy, where need be. However, from my experience, doing Voice Dialogue has a tremendous impact on a person - it is a complete shift, a very real phasic transition. Even getting in touch with this perspective (by reading a book about it or hearing about it) can make this shift happen.

As in the very article linked here - this will differ person to person. Even in Voice Dialogue, focused on conversation (to put it simply) you will encounter energies or people who operate more easily with images, some not very talkative, and so on. However, the strange point still stands - one can literally talk with your Inner Child and you can feel it.

This might seem a strange perspective, but throughout the years I have only met with curiosity and only twice (?) wtih total 'I reject it. Get away from me.' Some people fear that this view might disintegrate them, where in fact it has a great integrative character. Some may fear it. So you simply can talk to this part which fears it... and the fun begins.

I hope I somehow stayed on the point replying to your questions.

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#239

Post by throw0101a » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #205

throw0101a wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't have inner voices, there's only me up there I don't have "me" up there most of the time. Usually only when (a) I'm reading to myself or (b) if I'm practicing/going over a conversation or 'debate' on a concept. Otherwise my mind is usually quiet.

I do envy you I think. I am always there except when daydreaming or in the zone (reading, mind wandering, etc.). Then again what would I think what is "me" if I didn't have that constant 'observation of the world (outer and inner)' ? Maybe I don't have inner dialogue but anxiety is eating my mind (anxiety as in: being aware of the world all the time, observing it all the time) and it gives an illusion of monologue/be…

One disadvantage is a general lack of small talk ability: someone says something, and I'm like "…".

Re: People who have unusual, or non-existent, inner voices

#240

Post by wildermuthn » Wed, Nov 03, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

The Italian mind-couple in the article sound a lot like “Tulpas” — imaginary friends that seem to have their own personality and consciousness separate from their “host”. According to the Attention-Schema theory of consciousness (AST), there’s no real difference between our own consciousness and consciousness we ascribe to others. If AST is correct, there’s no particular reason that a single brain be restricted to a single consciousness.

Although multiple personality disorders grab attention, it may be that less dysfunctional forms of multiple personalities exist in more common and constructive ways — such as two Italians arguing in one’s head, or as seemingly autonomous fictional characters who are transferred by artists into novels and film. Or in the case of “tulpas”, as imaginary friends that provide relief from loneliness and isolation.

If consciousness is produced by the brain, rather than being a non-material 1:1 artifact of a soul, then fundamentally there is nothing to stop a single brain from producing multiple consciousnesses.

It might be hard for most of us to understand what it feels like to be a secondary consciousness (what it feels like to be Frodo), but that doesn’t mean secondary consciousnesses don’t exist. “Tulpas” certainly argue for their own existence and sentience, which at the very least makes for a fascinating read.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tulpas/