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Feds order Google to track people searching certain names or details

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Re: Feds order Google to track people searching certain names or details

#231

Post by wayoutthere »

vimacs2 wrote: post #189
stjohnswarts wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another Trump presidency will be the end of democracy in the USA. He will install cronies at the top of the military leadership and do exactly what Erdoğan did in Turkey. It's as sure a thing as the sun rising. He will not depend on a bunch of untrained rabble to take over the Capitol next time.

The only objection I have to this post that I have is the notion that there was a democracy there to begin with. Before Julius Caesar attempted (unsuccessfully) to monopolise power in the Old Republic, there was already a ever widening chasm between the farmers that made up the bulk of Roman citizenry and the people in the Senate. All Caesar had to do was harness this growing discontent of the masses through his fake…

I actually think the American experiment needs to end. What we have was never democracy nor was it meant to be. America was simply a playground for European nobles to send their second and third sons off to either make a fortune or die; then those surviving second and third sons decided to form a government that their families couldn’t claim as their own.

We need a new American experiment that is actually government by the people. One that doesn’t take ownership of other people as a founding principle (but you know, it’s cool because we took it back).

Re: Feds order Google to track people searching certain names or details

#232

Post by iammisc »

vimacs2 wrote: post #189
stjohnswarts wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another Trump presidency will be the end of democracy in the USA. He will install cronies at the top of the military leadership and do exactly what Erdoğan did in Turkey. It's as sure a thing as the sun rising. He will not depend on a bunch of untrained rabble to take over the Capitol next time.

The only objection I have to this post that I have is the notion that there was a democracy there to begin with. Before Julius Caesar attempted (unsuccessfully) to monopolise power in the Old Republic, there was already a ever widening chasm between the farmers that made up the bulk of Roman citizenry and the people in the Senate. All Caesar had to do was harness this growing discontent of the masses through his fake…

This is a rewriting of how terrible the senate was at the time. Caesar took the existing tyranny of the senate and substituted it for tyranny of an emperor.

This is the key that people often miss in this regard. The staggering ROman Republic was hardly a great country.

Re: Feds order Google to track people searching certain names or details

#233

Post by Maarten88 »

BobbyJo wrote: post #220
zamfi wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For a legal warrant you have to have probable cause that a specific person committed a crime. You can't just search everybody and see what sticks, that's blatantly unconstitutional. Sure, though it’s worth noting that nothing prohibits the police from walking down the street and asking people. Those people don’t have to talk to the police, but… Google will fight warrants like this. AT&T doesn’t. Other companies hav…

I think something everyone should be aware of as well: there is no legal requirement that Google not hand over this data to police. A warrant is needed to force Google to hand over such data, but they don't need anything at all to ask Google nicely . And if Google decides it's in their best interest to comply without a warrant, they are the legal owner of the data, so ...

I wonder if this is true for me as a EU citizen. Per the GDPR, companies can use personal data without consent when there is a legal requirement, but I think they can't just hand it out without consent when they just feel like it.

Maybe that is where the warrant comes in, to make it plausible that it is required?

I guess we'll find out when they arrest the first EU citizen based on this data.

Re: Feds order Google to track people searching certain names or details

#234

Post by elzbardico »

mulmen wrote: post #224
Zababa wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Calling the police is only about striking the perpetrator with violence, hoping that it would equalize the karma levels. Or, you know, prevent them from doing crimes again.

Rehabilitation is clearly not a high priority in the US Justice system. See: outcomes. It's a vengeance based system.

inmates have found that is pretty hard to commit the same crimes that put them in jail while they are behind the bars.

It should count for anything.

Re: Feds order Google to track people searching certain names or details

#235

Post by rpmisms »

Spivak wrote: post #208
rpmisms wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The court doesn't, or at least shouldn't, make law.

You're about 850 years too late on that front. Common Law has been a thing since Henry the Second and we just ggyG'd the whole UK legal system and edited from there. You can't really avoid this either without throwing out judicial precedent because "knowing how the court will rule on subsequent cases" is basically the same as law.

> You can't really avoid this either without throwing out judicial precedent because "knowing how the court will rule on subsequent cases" is basically the same as law.

But that's not law. That's consistent interpretation of law. Very different.

Re: Feds order Google to track people searching certain names or details

#236

Post by willis936 »

verisimi wrote: post #184

"Accidental leak reveals US government has secretly hit Google with 'keyword warrants' to identify ANYONE searching certain names, addresses, and phone numbers" This is historical - it is disclosure. Talk about the constitution all you like, but was anyone in any doubt that they were already doing this? That they suck up all the data from media companies to have a mega-graph? That they are running accurate simulation…

I'd like to point out that "technocracy" means society gives decision-making power to the experts.

Re: Feds order Google to track people searching certain names or details

#237

Post by elzbardico »

vimacs2 wrote: post #185
6510 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, that seems a whole different problem that should really be addressed. In the Netherlands the police are the politest people one could ever meet. It takes very few complaints about politeness or excess force to lose the job. Ofc on the flip side they are also highly incompetent, have no tools, get to see just about ever crook released, are under paid and are very unprofessional. But polite, woah!

Cute attempt at establishing a completely made up dichotomy but generally the politeness of a police force is correlated with how effective it is, not inversely.

Of course. In places with low crime levels, the police can afford not being completely stressed to the point they become psychos.

Re: Feds order Google to track people searching certain names or details

#238

Post by koheripbal »

tehwebguy wrote: post #23

Maybe the correct response to unconstitutional, secret warrants is to refuse to comply, maybe even refuse to respond? It's not clear to me what would happen next but I can't imagine Pichai would be arrested. Maybe a datacenter would be raided (could FBI even guess where this data might be physically located?) but at least then some public action would have to happen and break the secrecy.

The judge that issued the warrant would order Google into court and administer hefty fines for a few days. if they still refused the court could order arrest warrants for executives of the company until they comply.

it never ever goes this far

Re: Feds order Google to track people searching certain names or details

#239

Post by xxpor »

RattleyCooper wrote: post #103
AlbertCory wrote: post #60

I'm not a Constitutional scholar, but I would bet SCOTUS rules this kind of warrant illegal. Google certainly has the resources to take the case that far. AFAIK a warrant usually is tied to a specific person or a specific crime. In other words, if an explosion killed Harry McHarryface, then it would be constitutional to ask for names of people who searched for Harry. Or if the fertilizer used in the bomb was shown to…

Look at it this way, if a car is involved in a drive-by shooting the police can't get a warrant to search every single home that has the same year/make/model of car registered to with that address. For a legal warrant you have to have probable cause that a specific person committed a crime. You can't just search everybody and see what sticks, that's blatantly unconstitutional.

I'd guess the analogy the government would make is that it's more similar to a DUI checkpoint. They're searching everyone (or a random subset) of everyone coming through an area.

Re: Feds order Google to track people searching certain names or details

#240

Post by Stupulous »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #171
wayoutthere wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the SCOTUS has basically no legitimacy left at both the federal and state level. States are routinely ignoring Supreme Court rulings and have for years, and federal agencies don’t listen to them either anymore. The rule of law in the US is on life support right now. Another Trump presidency will kick the patient out the window.

Another Trump presidency will be the end of democracy in the USA. He will install cronies at the top of the military leadership and do exactly what Erdoğan did in Turkey. It's as sure a thing as the sun rising. He will not depend on a bunch of untrained rabble to take over the Capitol next time.

Why didn't he just do that last time?
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