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Esbuild – An extremely fast JavaScript bundler

esbuild.github.io

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Re: Esbuild – An extremely fast JavaScript bundler

#231
post #110

Often overlooked things when discussing esbuild here: 1. It's not just a faster replacement for a single %tool_name% in your build chain: for the vast majority of cases, it's the whole "chain" in a single cli command if you're doing it right. That is, you don't just stick it inside, say, webpack as a faster replacement for babel (although you can). No, you look carefully through your webpack configs and its myriad of…

Remember when all of these points applied to webpack, when it was the “single simple fast tool” to replace everyone’s grunt scripts? It seems there’s a feature treadmill at work here where projects inexorably bloat as they get popular. But we tried “compose tools in the Unix way” with grunt too, and that led to spaghetti scripts, unique to each project, that were hard to reason about. I wonder if there is a middle wa…

> Remember when all of these points applied to webpack, when it was the “single simple fast tool” to replace everyone’s grunt scripts?

Don't recall perf being the win with Webpack, Webpack was "Web-Pack" because it allowed you to use CommonJS to co-locate external assets (SVGs, CSS, etc) with code, and then being able to produce distinct bundles from that dependency graph. Grunt had no clue what your source dep graph looked like, you had to build your own pipeline (specifying dependent tasks for each task). Of course, now everybody has their own Webpack config that alters some input or output, but it's a considerably more powerful tool than Grunt ever was.

Re: Esbuild – An extremely fast JavaScript bundler

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember when all of these points applied to webpack, when it was the “single simple fast tool” to replace everyone’s grunt scripts? It seems there’s a feature treadmill at work here where projects inexorably bloat as they get popular. But we tried “compose tools in the Unix way” with grunt too, and that led to spaghetti scripts, unique to each project, that were hard to reason about. I wonder if there is a middle wa…

I really don’t, webpack config was was a cluster&€@ from day 1. Also, webpacks goal always was to do everything and the kitchen sink, much different from esbuild.

Seconding that. It’s the one reason I never started using webpack in the first place, at least not from scratch.

Angular ships with a working config out of the box, and I hope I never, ever will have to tweak that to fix a build.

Re: Esbuild – An extremely fast JavaScript bundler

#234
post #110

Often overlooked things when discussing esbuild here: 1. It's not just a faster replacement for a single %tool_name% in your build chain: for the vast majority of cases, it's the whole "chain" in a single cli command if you're doing it right. That is, you don't just stick it inside, say, webpack as a faster replacement for babel (although you can). No, you look carefully through your webpack configs and its myriad of…

Remember when all of these points applied to webpack, when it was the “single simple fast tool” to replace everyone’s grunt scripts? It seems there’s a feature treadmill at work here where projects inexorably bloat as they get popular. But we tried “compose tools in the Unix way” with grunt too, and that led to spaghetti scripts, unique to each project, that were hard to reason about. I wonder if there is a middle wa…

Something a lot of people don’t appreciate is that the past ten years have been an anomaly for JavaScript. They’ve been very tumultuous because there was a ton of evolving that suddenly needed to happen. And I think we’re nearing the end.

Babel was necessary because core syntaxes were changing so fast. Webpack’s sprawling nature was needed because there were so many alternate dialects, module systems to support, etc. Esbuild is only possible because we’ve generally converged on TypeScript, JSX, ES modules, etc. It knows what you probably were going to configure webpack to do anyway, so it can just do it.

So I wouldn’t call it a “treadmill”, I’d call it growing pains

Re: Esbuild – An extremely fast JavaScript bundler

#235
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The announcements from NextJS has been really confusing. I don't think they are using SWC yet. They are just working on it. The reason for the confusion is because they write about the progress in the release notes, making it look like they are using it.

SWC in NextJS is still in canary with experimental settings, but it took me 3 lines of code yesterday to make it work on a fairly large app ( https://labelflow.ai ). Hot reload times instantly went from 10s to 1s. Twitter discussion here https://twitter.com/vlecrubier/status/1448371633673187329?s=... Overall I’m pretty bullish on Rust tooling and integration within the JS/ Wasm ecosystem !

could you provide a link on how to enable this experimental setting ? thank you.

Re: Esbuild – An extremely fast JavaScript bundler

#237
post #110

Often overlooked things when discussing esbuild here: 1. It's not just a faster replacement for a single %tool_name% in your build chain: for the vast majority of cases, it's the whole "chain" in a single cli command if you're doing it right. That is, you don't just stick it inside, say, webpack as a faster replacement for babel (although you can). No, you look carefully through your webpack configs and its myriad of…

Remember when all of these points applied to webpack, when it was the “single simple fast tool” to replace everyone’s grunt scripts? It seems there’s a feature treadmill at work here where projects inexorably bloat as they get popular. But we tried “compose tools in the Unix way” with grunt too, and that led to spaghetti scripts, unique to each project, that were hard to reason about. I wonder if there is a middle wa…

The Convention Over Configuration crowd has their arguments.

Re: Esbuild – An extremely fast JavaScript bundler

#238
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Number 2 is a common pattern. At first developers are exploring things and changing approaches from time to time, so the most flexible solution wins (express, redux, webpack). Then they understand exactly what they need, so they can make a new tool with focus on particular set of use cases and features from the start.

Yeah, we actually went through this with Redux itself. When Redux was first released in 2015, it was deliberately designed to be minimal and extensible. Other Flux libraries at the time had various forms of async handling built in (support for dispatching actions via promises, etc). Dan and Andrew wanted to avoid locking users in to any single form of async handling [0], so the middleware API was designed to let user…

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Re: Esbuild – An extremely fast JavaScript bundler

#239
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came here too say this. The man authored in the neighborhood of 100k LOC in a year, just on this. There's a living 10x dev, it's not a myth. What is ridiculous is to think someone can 10x a normal developer, it's more like the difference between the top few percent and the bottom 10-20%. Evan Wallace is a beast, no doubt.

I really wish people would stop idolising so called '10x' developers. Anyone that is comfortable and familiar with their toolset (e.g. go, .NET, Java, C++) and has a deep understanding of a problem (and has likely solved it once already), can churn out code far, far, faster than an onlooker.

Being proficient in your tech stack helps your output sure but it's only one part (and a small one IMO) of the equation for creating something like esbuild. The author of esbuild surely has a strong knowledge of computer architecture, data structure and algorithms, operating systems and some math.

Re: Esbuild – An extremely fast JavaScript bundler

#240
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish people would stop idolising so called '10x' developers. Anyone that is comfortable and familiar with their toolset (e.g. go, .NET, Java, C++) and has a deep understanding of a problem (and has likely solved it once already), can churn out code far, far, faster than an onlooker.

Ehhh no I don’t think it’s that simple. I’ve found that in any tech company, while there are many people that write good code and do a great job, there are always a handful (even at a place like Apple) that truly push the industry forward and in certain directions, partly because of how they see years ahead, partly because they are supremely talented, and partly because they attract other really good talent just to w…

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