Redditors are right about the unfairness of the market • Hacker News Board

Re: Redditors are right about the unfairness of the market

#231

Post by Atlas667 » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 12:35 PM UTC

Aunche wrote: post #126

Atlas667 wrote: post #80

Jolly, what a surprise... This article is just paying lip service to everyone who already feels this is the case (most sane people) and redditors. Just for gathering some traffic. The real truth is in understanding that this is fundamentally unstoppable within our economic mode of production. No ammount of regulation or de-regulation will prevent a system based on individual profit accumulation from becoming corrupt.…

>The real truth is in understanding that this is fundamentally unstoppable within our economic mode of production. Your favorite economic mode of production has the exact same potential for corruption and exploitation if not more. Wealth isn't the only form of capital. Societies that tried to forcefully eliminate wealth inequality have always ended up with an economy of exchanging favors behind closed doors. This is…

You claim my favorite mode of production has the same potential, but do not describe what "my favorite" is or how that potential is expressed. But if you believe that, whatever it may be, then how do we get rid of it?

Do you not believe those "safety" measures can be implemented into a mode of production?

If the monopoly on force is dissolved and the private property of socially productive assets is dissolved. Will it not be in the interest of everyone to organize and stop that corruption and exploitation?

Re: Redditors are right about the unfairness of the market

#232

Post by Atlas667 » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 6:31 PM UTC

Clubber wrote: post #228

mrpf1ster wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the un-corruptible agency that is going to enforce these laws? Someone stealing a bag of chips has no recourse to get out of prosecution. A wealthy insider trader has the resources and influence to reduce or even eliminate any consequences.

It's supposed to be us, by voting out politicians who are dirty. Unfortunately, most of us have been duped into being on some "team," and are willing to ignore the corruption of one team to feel good about pointing out the corruption of the other. Since there are only 2 teams, this works beautifully for the politicians. It's an endless cycle that needs to be broken, shipped jobs overseas, shrank our already pathetic…

So you believe that if we just vote, the system that the rich have built will fix itself?

These flaws are not bugs, these are part of the design. It was never meant to be democracy for the many, it was only democracy for the wealthy. Like the greco-roman model.

We need working class democracy, which builds worker oriented hierarchies from neighborhoods upwards. No far away senators that """""represent"""" you. You elect neighbors to represent the interests of the community majority. From neighborhoods to districts, to regions and states. Everyone closely accountable to their base. With full economic transparency, available to all in a public ledger system.

But this implies the elimination of private property over socially productive assets. You can't own something if it serves other people. It's not about giving up your house or you car. It's about not owning a pharmaceutical company. Or power line distributions. Or farms.

Private property of social assets produces the profit motive and is the root of all economic exploitation

Re: Redditors are right about the unfairness of the market

#233

Post by fairity » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

wilkommen wrote: post #152

fairity wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the biggest misconceptions is that the stock market is a zero sum game. Its absolutely not. No, it's by definition a zero sum game. Fundamentally, owning shares in a company grants you rights to a fraction of all future company earnings. For any given stock transaction: - there's an agreed upon price, $X - there's a true value, $Y, which equates to the net present value of all future company earnings that th…

> Fundamentally, owning shares in a company just grants you rights to a fraction of all future company earnings. No it doesn't! Owning shares in a company doesn't give you rights to a fraction of all the future earnings of the company. What kinds of shares have you been buying? All owning shares in a company gives you is the ability to sell those shares to someone else. There's some kind of nominal "voting rights" an…

This is so off-base that I didn't even feel like responding at the time it was written. Anyone who believes that owning shares in a company does NOT give you partial rights to future profit distributions needs to go educate themselves on how the stock market works.