Live data from Hacker News

The Problem with Ethereum

tomerstrolight.medium.com

231–240 of 321 posts

Re: The Problem with Ethereum

#231
post #230
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Proof of Humanity, a system combining webs of trust, with reverse Turing tests, and dispute resolution to create a sybil-proof list of humans.” This is their mission, and the rest of the website focuses on ID and such services. Not one mention of poverty alleviation.

The connection here is that sybil-proofing is a (the?) major bottleneck to cryptoeconomic UBI schemes.

That’s like saying SSN (or other gov issued ID) solves poverty.

Re: The Problem with Ethereum

#232
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Miners are not doing any useful work is incorrect, they are securing the system.

The system does not need to be secured in a way that burns the energy of Argentina. There are networks running right now that use the energy of a windmill to provide secure transactions, and more of them, processed in under a second, with no fee at all. That's not vaporware; that's current reality. All Bitcoin miners are doing is perpetuating a system that has been very groundbreaking but is now obsolete in every way…

The cost of burning electricity in PoW mining is very visible. The opportunity cost of locking up coins in stake is hidden. However, the economic cost is still there. If a process truly provides a particular good or service for unconditionally lower costs then it will dominate the market. We shall see if that happens in crypto.

Re: The Problem with Ethereum

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>_Objectively_ better alternatives to Bitcoin are around for at least the last five years. If you truly think this way, you're deluding yourself & this is where I stop reading. Everything has tradeoffs. There's no 'objective' better.

> Everything has tradeoffs. There's no 'objective' better. Yes there is. Every chess move has advantages and disadvantages, yes. But some are objectively better . Every algorithm has advantages and disadvantages. But some are objectively better . Believing that nothing can be objectively better than Bitcoin, and calling people who disagree delusional, is less than useful.

Chess is an abstract game in a tightly bounded universe. Economics (which includes monetary economics) is concerned with open systems in the real world. The two are not even remotely comparable.

You might benefit--expand your mind--by reading some classical economists' thoughts on such things.

Re: The Problem with Ethereum

#234
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhmm.. what product market fit? And why is proof of steak good?

$100B+ invested across hundreds of decentralized apps, with exponential user growth, is absolutely product market fit - https://defillama.com/chains

Nothing about that says product-market fit beyond the speculative use case - which I would agree does show spectacular product-market fit since it is proven there are tons of people willing to speculate and crypto provides an asset class with attributes that people are really craving (poor regulation, high risk and volatility, etc.)

Re: The Problem with Ethereum

#235
post #154
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin has chosen consistency with its original principles over "innovation." A good choice, in my book. What we should think of as constituting sound money has not changed since 2008. That is what bitcoin is supposed to be - sound money. Ethereum is supposed to be something else - and it makes sense for Ethereum to "innovate" much more than bitcoin does.

> That is what bitcoin is supposed to be - sound money. Bitcoin can't be used as money in most cases as transactions are too expensive and slow. It has failed its primary function. Instead of doing something about it, the notion of using bitcoin like money has been abandonded and it's merely a " store of value ". That's until people stop valuing it.

Is cash money? What percentage of your transactions are settled in cash?

Money and payment settlement systems are not the same thing, although you could be forgiven for believing that. I use a credit card for 99% of my transaction volume, and credit cards are not money. The fact that the notional value of the transaction is denominated in dollars doesn't mean I am actually using dollars as the medium of exchange--the exchange is facilitated by a clearinghouse and my individual transaction may not even result in a transfer of money (actual dollars) between parties, if there is an offsetting transaction (or chain of transactions) within the same settlement period.

Re: The Problem with Ethereum

#236
post #88

I think if anything the crypto-experiment has revealed is that an uncaring, cold machine doesn't meet the needs of the human condition. A person fat-fingers his life savings to null, a thief socially engineers someone's money, a bug causes assets to be trapped, etc. It's clear we need a better system that can service our imperfections.

Unfortunately we live in an uncaring cold machine (the natural universe), which is ignored or hand-waved away at our mortal peril.

Re: The Problem with Ethereum

#237
Long story short - hype and broken promises. About security. About scalability. About proof of stake. About code is law. About the world computer. About deadlines and timetables. All the way to the very beginning of the project, although the author doesn't go there. Make the thing so damn complicated few can reason about it or see the time bombs hidden behind the marble pillars.

That's a recipe for a high priest class.

Still, the hoards eat it up. It's a testament to the power of complex, flawed ideas, marketed to the hilt, and the promise of riches if you stick with the leadership.

It's really a recipe for a technology religion.

Re: The Problem with Ethereum

#238
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Bitcoin is a better store of value, Ethereum is a better tech stack for innovation. They serve different purposes and so should have different development schedules and risk aversion.

At its core, a store of value is just something that other people will desire as much now as they do at some later point in time. In that sense, Bitcoin runs the risk of being left behind if PoW at 7tx/sec becomes seen as the dial-up modem of crypto.

[deleted]

Re: The Problem with Ethereum

#239
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Ethereum's development isn't a simple project that can be rushed, it's massively complicated. This road map comes to mind: https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/133392262085774540... It's very outdated now, that's not the point. The point is that every circle on the road map is a very complicated project in and of itself that needs tons of research, development and testing to be implemented properly. Just t…

Absolutely, not to mention Eth just rolled out a major update last week. This rambling, bizarre article boils down to a few very basic, extremely played out arguments. Argument 1: Proof of stake concentrates wealth more than proof of work. You can make that argument, but POS advocates have for a long time argued that proof of work mining has more economies of scale than proof of stake and therefore the opposite is ac…

Thank you for taking the time to type this. The topic of PoW vs PoS is very misunderstood and I see a lot of dishonesty in online forums.

I am very optimistic about Ethereum. It is not perfect but it is massively and consistently improving. The past few years, all crypto innovation was incubated within the Ethereum community.

Re: The Problem with Ethereum

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> use savings to become a asshole landlord Being an asshole is not a requirement for landlords, nor is it exclusive to them. Oppressed workers can be assholes too!

An oppressed class has every right to be a asshole.

To their oppressors, perhaps. But if they are also assholes to everyone else then they are just assholes and the oppression has nothing to do with it.
Post reply on HN