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Early Retirement (2006)

philip.greenspun.com

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Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#231

Post by throwaway894345 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #219
throwaway894345 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was quite clear about what I meant: > they don't understand that capitalism minimizes the amount of work required to meet their needs/desires Anyone who thinks this is merely "ideology"--that there are non-capitalist systems that afford better quality of life for less labor--is invited to support their position with evidence.

> Anyone who thinks this is merely “ideology”--that there are non-capitalist systems that afford better quality of life for less labor–is invited to support their position with evidence. The evidence is the replacement of the system originally named “capitalism” by its critics, under pressure from its critics, throughout the developed world by the modern mixed economy in the decades of the mid-20th Century, with the…

> The evidence is the replacement of the system originally named “capitalism” by its critics, under pressure from its critics, throughout the developed world by the modern mixed economy in the decades of the mid-20th Century, with the modern mixed economy, which afforded the working masses a better quality of life for less labor directly by restraining the property relationships defining capitalism.

I’m profoundly disinterested in semantic arguments or moving goalposts.

> The question isn’t whether you can do better in terms of quality of life for workers with less labor than capitalism, the question is whether there is a limit to how far you can move away from capitalism while continuing to improve on that.

Fair enough, but even then the answer by all appearances is “not very”. In other words, no system has done better than those of modern first world countries.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#232

Post by ghaff »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #204
ryandrake wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will $80k a year be enough for any lifestyle? That's the question I struggle with. It's more than enough in today's dollars. But I have no idea what will happen with inflation and costs between now and retirement day. Maybe by the time I retire, $80k/yr will be poverty level. Maybe health insurance premiums alone will cost $80k/yr. Who knows! What will the value of the dollar be and to what extent will healthcare cos…

By the time you're withdrawing, your house should be paid off and you no longer need to save anything for retirement so that $80K is all spending money. Further, you're collecting social security and a good chunk of your healthcare is covered by medicare.

Even if your house is paid off, depending on the property, you may still have significant costs to budget for. I have an old house and a large property and between property tax, insurance, utilities, and maintenance (both routine and occasional large), I'm probably a good $1K/month.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#233

Post by throwaway894345 »

ghaff wrote: post #232
throwaway894345 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the time you're withdrawing, your house should be paid off and you no longer need to save anything for retirement so that $80K is all spending money. Further, you're collecting social security and a good chunk of your healthcare is covered by medicare.

Even if your house is paid off, depending on the property, you may still have significant costs to budget for. I have an old house and a large property and between property tax, insurance, utilities, and maintenance (both routine and occasional large), I'm probably a good $1K/month.

If your property taxes and insurance are high it’s because your house is worth a lot of money. If your house’s value constitutes a large share of your net worth such that taxes and insurance are a burden then it indicates that too much of your equity is in your house and you should downsize.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#234

Post by throwaway894345 »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #224
throwaway894345 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When paired with the "hedonistic treadmill" of spending, early retirement takes a lot more investment than many suspect. Even at a safe withdrawal rate of 4%, $2M is "only" $80k a year. Right, which is why people should save 10-15% starting from a young age. > Even at a safe withdrawal rate of 4%, $2M is "only" $80k a year. That's quite a lot more than the median household income and by the time you're withdrawing…

Most Ferraris are financed, I remember reading an article that said more than half of UK Ferrari owners have a net worth of less than a million pounds.

I’m talking about the specific meme, not particulars of Ferrari ownership. That’s an interesting digression, however.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#235

Post by simonh »

mlcrypto wrote: post #169
simonh wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you have kids the calculation changes, at least for me. I could retire comfortably in a few years, but my earning power is at it's peak. Every extra year I work provides significant extra resources for my family, to help the girls afford their first houses and get a good start in life when they graduate. I'll probably work another 5 years beyond what I'd probably do if it was purely about self-interest for mysel…

Why can't your kids work for their own house? It builds character. My mom told me I had to get a scholarship if I wanted my college paid, so I got one. Nobody is going to hand me a house either so I sought (and received) exceptional return in Bitcoin

Fair question, they can. Both are working towards well paid careers. Still, housing costs in the UK are extremely high these days. I got help from my parents with the deposit for my first house and I want to be able to do the same thing for my kids.

They’re both hard working, they do well at school and have part time jobs over the summer. I’m not worried about them on that score.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#236

Post by mvp »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #182
showerst wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It takes wisdom and maturity to realize that you don't need all that stuff This is _exactly_ what I take issue with. Look, "live below your means and be thoughtful about what spending will make you happier" is great advice. So is "plan for a future where you don't have to work". "Get a high paying remote job from a young age with no student loans, move somewhere cheap, actually find a partner there, don't dare find…

I suspect the people who are able to keep a tight reign on their spending do so for its own sake. They get some satisfaction from it before they even start thinking about retirement.

To some people, the pain of letting the money go is greater than the perceived benefit of the product/service they get in return for the money, most of the time. You can imagine such people accumulating money all their life. For them, FIRE would be a very attractive proposition.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#237

Post by brewdad »

myth_drannon wrote: post #223
spacedcowboy wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Brit, been living in the US for a decade or so now. I came here for the money and the weather, but the weather is going to shit these days... The long term plan was always to make sufficient money to retire early, then go home. Complicating this easy straightforward idea was that I got married (!) and now have a kid who I don't want to uproot. So now I wait for college-days, and then sod off back to the UK :) T…

Living far away from your children and grandchildren is really sad, especially once you get old and need help and company.

Plenty of that happens in the US too though. I grew up in the Rust Belt but have lived my entire post-college life (more than 2.5 decades) on the west coast.

By the time you need to get on a plane to visit, 2000 miles vs 5000 miles isn't a tremendous difference. (Assuming normal times with open borders).

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#238

Post by hahamrfunnyguy »

showerst wrote: post #92
tejohnso wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless you want to live like a single 24 year old your whole life. Controlling expenses and living a humble life style is pretty much the opposite of living like a single 24 year old. At least for me and most of the single 24 year olds I knew back then. It takes wisdom and maturity to realize that you don't need all that stuff. And if you can find a partner with the same outlook, you can certainly avoid spending te…

> It takes wisdom and maturity to realize that you don't need all that stuff This is _exactly_ what I take issue with. Look, "live below your means and be thoughtful about what spending will make you happier" is great advice. So is "plan for a future where you don't have to work". "Get a high paying remote job from a young age with no student loans, move somewhere cheap, actually find a partner there, don't dare find…

I've always been thoughtful about my spending. I got married 12 years ago and worked while my wife went to school full time. About 10 years ago, I discovered the MMM blog and started making a concerted effort achieve financial independence. I am just about there now.

For me, I didn't feel like there were many trade-offs. The key take-away is prioritizing value and figuring out what brings you joy in life. By doing this, I was able to eliminate a lot of unnecessary spending. I don't feel like I ever missed out on anything.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#239

Post by daptaq »

mlcrypto wrote: post #194
voidfunc wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you got lucky on a crypto-gamble and you think your situation applies to everyone? Help could mean a lot of things... it could mean $20K towards their down payment all the way up to buying the damn thing, the poster didn't really clarify. This whole "builds character" thing is a bunch of bullshit that people spout off to poo-poo those that have a leg up in life.

Its not a gamble. It's a sure thing that only people with the right mix of technical knowledge and Austrian economics can see

Could you describe what you saw?

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#240

Post by ghaff »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #233
ghaff wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if your house is paid off, depending on the property, you may still have significant costs to budget for. I have an old house and a large property and between property tax, insurance, utilities, and maintenance (both routine and occasional large), I'm probably a good $1K/month.

If your property taxes and insurance are high it’s because your house is worth a lot of money. If your house’s value constitutes a large share of your net worth such that taxes and insurance are a burden then it indicates that too much of your equity is in your house and you should downsize.

I never said they were a "burden." I was indicating that just because you've paid off your mortgage doesn't mean living in a house is free.

I think you'll find those numbers are not especially high for a house. (As opposed to a condo which have their own fees.) My house is not especially large--but it is about 200 years old although renovated so budgeting a few hundred dollars per month for maintenance seems reasonable.

I honestly doubt that most people could get the cost associated with maintaining a house below $500/month or so.

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