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The Push for a “PBS for the Internet”

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Re: The Push for a “PBS for the Internet”

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears the call is for more local journalism/programming online. PBS has great national and children's programs and does have broadcast local journalism/topics of interest. However, getting access to that online is more difficult. Do we need this? Meh.. IDK.

I get that more from my local NPR affiliate than I do PBS. Which I think is perhaps appropriate, if we've got to make a choice between the two. Textual media are a somewhat smaller jump from radio than they are from TV, and also, at least in my area, public radio is already doing a lot more local journalism. The public television station has a fair bit of locally produced programming, but most of it isn't really jour…

Huh—I judge PBS much more valuable to me, these days. Kids are a big factor in that, but also NPR's news is largely pretty poor—it's all horse-race shit and campaign Monday-morning quarterbacking around elections, the campaigns for which are now so long that they seem to be happening more often than not, and they continue to be blind to all kinds of issues and events generally—when it's not just re-broadcasting the BBC, and two of my favorite programs are gone now with nothing I consider anywhere near as good to replace them (Car Talk, and old-school A Prairie Home Companion, i.e. atheist Sunday church service). Some bright spots remain (On the Media), sure, but largely not stuff I care about or else programs that I think are simply bad.

They also spend a ton of time on ads (if you include promoting their own programs, especially).

I don't love a lot of PBS' current programming, but their historical material is a goldmine.

Re: The Push for a “PBS for the Internet”

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you just looking at previous journalism with rose colored glasses?

I recommend you read some newspaper articles from the 1920s and 1930s. Witty, well-written, and much less discernible spin than current news articles. Journalism has declined as a trade, there is no question. The real issue is whether journalism is net worse for society than it previously was.

Disclaimer: I've not specialised in media history, though I've been exploring it for a few years.

You can find clear bias through sources such as I.F. Stone (active 1950s -- 1970s), or George Seldes (1930s -- 1960s, lived to 1995). Earlier muckrakers included Upton Sinclair (The Jungle and It Can't Happen Here, 1910s -- 1950s), Ida M. Tarbell (The History of Standard Oil, 1890s -- 1920s), and Lincoln Steffans and Ray Stannard Baker (both late 19th century / early 20th).

There's a phenomenal interview with Stone from 1974 on ... Public Television's ... "Day at Night" programme: https://youtube.com/watch?v=qV3gO3zxQ1g

I've commented numerous times recommending Hamilton Holt's Commercialism and Journalism (1909), a short book highlighting the influence of advertising on media. It's short, readable, fact-filled, and available at the Internet Archive: https://archive.org/details/commercialismjou00holtuoft

Walter Lippmann's Public Opinion (1922) largely established the model for the "impartial press" (so called, only partially successful as such) during the bulk of the 20th century. It was based in significant part on Lippmann's own experience with failures of the news media in reporting accurately on the Russian Revolution of 1917--23.

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.126489/page/n1...

Other authors I'd recommend would be Ed Herman and Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent (the title itself is a reference to Lippmann's work), Robert W. McChesney's many books on media, Ben H. Bagdikian, The Media Monopoly (cited in the famouse Google "Backrub" paper (http://infolab.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html), Neil Postman's Amusing Ourself to Death, and Edward Jay Espstein, News from Nowhere (https://archive.org/details/newsfromnowheret00epst).

The last looks at television news as of 1971, including the numerous biases built in to the medium through narrative focus, budget constraints, and technological limitations, as well as the pace and scale of operations. Not all of those still apply, though some do, but it does remain a persuasive argument of how even incidental characteristics can profoundly influence a medium.

For contemporaneous criticisms of television, see Edward J. Murrow's "Lights and Wires in a Box" speech, and Newton Minnow's "Vast Wasteland" speech, from the late 1950s / early 1960s.

https://www.rtdna.org/content/edward_r_murrow_s_1958_wires_l...

http://www.janda.org/b20/News%20articles/vastwastland.htm

I've compiled a few further references concerning media generally in a "light reading list": https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/7k7l4m/media_a...

Re: The Push for a “PBS for the Internet”

#233
post #7

Well there is: https://www.pbs.org/video/ Also PBS has a great kids games app(s) that are free with games that are fun / no ads. And PBS kids video app is again free, great content, no ads. If you're in the US and care about that content, I suggest contributing to your local station. The quality of the content from kids to adult is outstanding. It's not usual for me to browse a few streaming services and just end up…

Orthogonal: Can we pause for a moment and admire how amazing the PBS logo is? They've kept it for many years and haven't fallen to "trends". Here is some history: https://logos.fandom.com/wiki/PBS

Honest question: what's amazing about it? Am I missing some clever aspect of it?

Re: The Push for a “PBS for the Internet”

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Yes. Supply of PBS quality content is a solved problem. With good curation, sharing, and sleuthing -- I find the educational content on YouTube to surpass anything+everything even at undergrad college (minus social and minus interactive language classes.) I also used YouTube extensively to supplement grad school course materials, with great success. I realize not everyone learns this way, but many do, and it is fr…

> With good curation, sharing, and sleuthing -- I find And it's biased because of the "I find". Everyone filters information even subconsciously.

You're absolutely right. My approach has been to take my syllabus, ignore the textbook -- which is often completely theoretical and unnecessarily flooded with greek letters -- and found better course material on YouTube. The syllabus is important indeed. Another approach is to subscribe to lecture seriess on YouTube from other universities with better curation -- and let that university do the filtering.

Re: The Push for a “PBS for the Internet”

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not centrist. It's pro status quo. "Things are mostly OK, and in the few cases where they're a little bit bad, we're here to tell you about them."

Is there a meaningful difference? Isn't your definition of status-quo more or less the position taken by "centrists"?

"Centrist" in relation to the current US Overton fits squarely into the right-wing compared to "centrist" in relation current and past societies in the world.

Re: The Push for a “PBS for the Internet”

#236
post #76
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A politician you can theoretically "vote out of office" can be more insidious than big business ever could. Regarding a politician, only collective action can remedy the situation. At least, with business, you get immediate remedy by going elsewhere. And maybe eventual long term remedy if enough people do likewise. Of course, even big business can become too big as to stifle competition.

Don't you still need collective action for a business? It's even got a name "boycott"

Also "strike", "class action", "legislation", and "regulation".

Re: The Push for a “PBS for the Internet”

#237
post #88

If you look at the history of the Public Broadcasting Act [1] that established the CPB and eventually PBS, it seems clear that it was passed in response to poorly-funded educational programming not being able to compete with high-budget commercial network TV. Its authors wanted to make it easier for smaller, non-commercial entities to produce and distribute high-quality educational content. In that regard, the Intern…

PBS educational programming is also a product of the unique American political system. In short, classroom education was entirely controlled by individual states. Any new federal law/program in the education space is therefore easiest though different media. So the creation of a "public" broadcaster works, as opposed to any in-the-classroom federal program which would face constitutional challenge.

Re: The Push for a “PBS for the Internet”

#238
post #30

I don't think there needs to be a government owned internet media company. Sometimes I wonder how weird and wild a government run social media company would be. Open to US citizens only, identity verification required? No rules other than actual speech laws? No anonymity?

Usenet was a first approximation of a government-run social network.

I'm not suggesting that Usenet itself would serve as a model for a revived social discussion platform. But whilst it existed, it was supported in large part on the (publicy-funded) ARPANET, and through publicly-funded educational institutions (both public and private research universities relying strongly on government research funding, regardless of tuition income). In general parameters, it resembles the structure proposed in TFA: government funding, multiple independent institutions, many local and trusted serving their local communities. (Students, staff, and faculty rather than residents for the most part, but again, broadly, along the lines of what's being suggested.)

Re: The Push for a “PBS for the Internet”

#239
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PBS accepts large amounts from #bigAg, #bigPharma and various oligarch 'foundations'. The worry is that these huge entities shape the messaging. You won't ever hear monopolist Bill Gates critiqued on PBS or NPR for example...

That's certainly not true. NPR criticizes Bill Gates often as part of the "celebrity billionaire" group, and recently had a story about his affair with an employee.

It is fair to say that funder bias is a significant concern in the not-for-profit world, including in public broadcasting.

There's been open mainstream speculation of that "PBS sold its soul" to the Koch Brothers:

As David Sirota, the author of the PandoDaily expose, wrote in its aftermath, PBS doesn’t stand for “Public Broadcasting Service” anymore. As it becomes more addicted to big-bucks donors, it risks becoming the Plutocrat Broadcasting Service.

https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-xpm-2014-feb-17-...

Tiny Spark is the podcast of Nonprofits Quarterly, and has dedicated numerous episodes to the question of funder influence.

https://nonprofitquarterly.org/podcasts/

Ralph Nader, Noam Chomsky, and Robert W. McChesney are voices on the left who have called out corporate / fundraiser bias on the part of PBS, NPR, CPB, and other public broadcasters in the US. McChesney notes:

Public broadcasting today is really a system of nonprofit commercial broadcasting, serving a sliver of the population. What we need is a system of real public broadcasting, with no advertising, one that accepts no grants from corporations or private bodies, one that serves the entire population, not merely those who have high-brow tastes and disposable income to contribute during pledge drives.

https://www.lehigh.edu/~jl0d/J246-02/oligopoly.html

Re: The Push for a “PBS for the Internet”

#240
This seems like fighting the last war.

When I hear "PBS for the internet" I think publicly-funded content.

Content on the internet doesn't have pride of place like it does on broadcast media. The internet is about platforms.

"PBS for the internet" should be about creating, first, open standards for content distribution, promotion, and moderation. And then maybe implementing those standards.

Content is basically free on the internet with the right platform. Trying to counter misinformation with good content is boiling the ocean. The better way to spread good content is to create standards and maybe a platform that incentivizes third parties to make good content.

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