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Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

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Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#231

Post by pharmakom »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #174
hnick wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance, points, cashback, chargebacks. It's also a one month interest free float of your funds if you pay in full each month, meaning you earn some interest. I know some debit cards are getting closer to credit cards in these areas but at least when I first got one, they were just plastic cash. You spend it you lose it, the bank won't support you with clawing it back.

> Insurance, points, cashback, chargebacks The first 3 don't really seem to exist in relation to CCs in NZ, and wanting/needing to do a chargeback seems unlikely. There are probably mild benefits to me having a CC over a debit card in NZ, but it doesn't seem to be anything like the US.

Protection with a credit card is so much better than a debit card. If you prepay for a service that is not delivered, then the credit card company will refund you.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#232

Post by acchow »

rwmj wrote: post #219
J253 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t have a credit card and see no point in it. If you use a credit card like a debit card (pay it off in full every month) it can be rewarding depending on the card. I make $75-$100 cash back every month on my credit card.

Where does the $75-$100 come from? Is it that prices are generally more expensive, or is it a transfer from people who get into terrible debt?

It's a 1-3% tax on the merchants. This effectively makes doing business more expensive. You would think that prices in the US would be 1-3% higher than elsewhere in the world, but the "buy first decide later" carefree spending attitude makes for quite a different consumption landscape.

Credit cards in the US offer all kinds of perks. My card covers my purchase for damages or theft/loss for 120 days. This reduces the friction in consumption.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#233

Post by didibus »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #174
hnick wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance, points, cashback, chargebacks. It's also a one month interest free float of your funds if you pay in full each month, meaning you earn some interest. I know some debit cards are getting closer to credit cards in these areas but at least when I first got one, they were just plastic cash. You spend it you lose it, the bank won't support you with clawing it back.

> Insurance, points, cashback, chargebacks The first 3 don't really seem to exist in relation to CCs in NZ, and wanting/needing to do a chargeback seems unlikely. There are probably mild benefits to me having a CC over a debit card in NZ, but it doesn't seem to be anything like the US.

You should check what's the difference if you get frauded. In Canada, with a debit, it's mostly your loss, but credit cards you can make a fraud claim and they will reimburse you.

That's my main reason for never using my debit and always using a credit card, to offset the risk of fraud.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#234

Post by vmladenov »

J253 wrote: post #144
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an early 20s Kiwi zoomer, so somewhat similar demographic. I don't have a credit card and see no point in it. I use a debit card for everything. I don't think most of my friends have credit cards either, but maybe they do and I don't notice.

> I don’t have a credit card and see no point in it. If you use a credit card like a debit card (pay it off in full every month) it can be rewarding depending on the card. I make $75-$100 cash back every month on my credit card.

To me, the greatest benefit of a credit card is that I’m doing business with JPMorgan Chase’s money and not my own. When I got an alert for an $1100 charge at a home improvement store hundreds of miles from where I was currently located, the representative happily issued me a new card number and voided the transaction.

Meanwhile, when someone had stolen my Schwab checks from the mail and written themself fraudulent rent checks for several thousand, it took nearly 3 months to get the money back. And the account was empty at the time, but Schwab’s (unknown to me) overdraft protection helpfully pulled liquid from my investment account. A debit card like using checks. The bank cares way less about your money than they do their own.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#235

Post by ThePadawan »

robertwt7 wrote: post #171
geekpowa wrote: post #128

Afterpay's business model relies on high merchant fees which merchants, under their merchant agreement, are not allowed to pass onto their customers. So from customers point of view, afterpay often appears to be cheaper than other payment channels such as credit card / paypal. Afterpay roll into a new merchant, cannibalise existing payment systems and at leat for the low margin merchants I work with, who are not savv…

Actually the fee is not far higher than Amex. Depends on the business, it can be a blessing or a curse.

Pitching in from Switzerland - Amex is the one card issuer that is constantly going through the cycle of (being delisted from stores because they're fees are too high) => (Customers stop using Amex) => (Amex dropping their fees a tiny bit) => (Stores relist Amex) => (Amex raise their fees).

So "fees not far higher than Amex" sound really quite terrible.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#236

Post by dannyw »

Tehdasi wrote: post #95
catmanjan wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than mortgage (and HECS) nobody I know uses debt - Australians love second hand cars

So basically it's 90+% of debt for housing (scroll down to the pie chart): https://www.finder.com.au/australias-personal-debt-reported-... I'm including 'Investment debt' cause who are we kidding? It's all investment properties.

huh? plenty of brokers offer margin trading at decent interest rates.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#237

Post by didibus »

matkoniecz wrote: post #206
systemvoltage wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the main benefit of using a credit card. The primary benefit of a CC is decoupling it from your bank account - if there is an issue, CC company will fight the charge for you and almost always side on your side. I bought a pair of speakers costing $2500. I tried to reach to the company for a return but no one would answer. No phone, no email, nada. 1 month return deadline was coming up and I called American…

Then why not us debit card? Chargebacks are also available and risk of ending with spiral of debt is removed. (Yes, it is a real risk. Yes I know that you and me are not going to e so stupid. But I am not trusting this belief.)

In the US debit cards have terrible charge back, and even then, if the merchant doesn't follow through, you're the one who needs to fight for it, where as with a CC it'll be them doing the fighting.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#238

Post by dannyw »

valzam wrote: post #204
shell0x wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not American, so I have less insight than you perhaps, but I'd say America is much more affordable than Australia. In Australia most jobs are in Sydney and Melbourne. Perth is mostly for mining and Brisbane doesn't have many tech jobs. Real estate prices in Sydney and Melbourne are in the million(s), but incomes are ~100+k AUD. Some people earn 200k+ as a principal engineer, but that's pretty much it. In America…

Except that Australia doesn't have a broken migration system so actually getting a visa is much easier. Also no broken healthcare system, gun laws or student loan crisis. I'd rather raise a family in Australia than America.

Ding ding ding. Much easier to get family migration visas too. Multiculturalism is a lot better than other comparable nations.

Think of house prices as reflecting the "price of living in Australia".

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#239

Post by Sander_Marechal »

hnick wrote: post #164
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an early 20s Kiwi zoomer, so somewhat similar demographic. I don't have a credit card and see no point in it. I use a debit card for everything. I don't think most of my friends have credit cards either, but maybe they do and I don't notice.

Insurance, points, cashback, chargebacks. It's also a one month interest free float of your funds if you pay in full each month, meaning you earn some interest. I know some debit cards are getting closer to credit cards in these areas but at least when I first got one, they were just plastic cash. You spend it you lose it, the bank won't support you with clawing it back.

> Insurance, points, cashback, chargebacks

Dutch here. We don't have points or cashback. Purchases are insured with standard bank debit payments as well, as are chargebacks. I do own a credit card but that is purely for the occasional (usually US) webshop that doesn't accept European debit cards, or as a backup payment method on vacation (my debit card once broke on vacation and my family had to send me money through Western Union)

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#240

Post by dannyw »

nsonha wrote: post #229
jeeeb wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not overly familiar with US salaries but it looks to me like you’re comparing net salary for a high paid job in Sydney, to gross salary for a FAANG role in SF. Presumably they have to pay taxes and have a high cost of living as well :) I don’t know how accurate it is but the 2020 SO developer survey puts the median salary for an engineering manager in the US at $152k and an SRE at $140K. In my experience that’s m…

200k is like a low base for FAANG, and there are other great companies that pays well not just them. It is a good salary in America but not that impresive, as you can get that by just being an individual contributor. On the other hand, AUD300k is a C-level salary here in Australia and way past the start of top tax bracket (AUD180k) SO numbers are way off comparing to levels'. They're heavily skewed toward the low end…

Senior engineers at Google Australia can make AUD 300k total comp. You don't have to be C-level.
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