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Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

arstechnica.com

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Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#231

Post by thefunnyman »

trunnell wrote: post #113
cratermoon wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd happily go back to working in the office. If I had an actual office , not a 4-foot wide folding table that's part of a line of eight of them in 12 rows in a room the size of a basketball court. I haven't had an "office" to go to work in since 2000. I've shared spaces with anywhere from three to all of my co-workers. "Recent research shows that such offices result in 73 per cent less face-to-face interaction, and…

"Private offices with doors that close" - that's the standard at Fog Creek Software, the company behind Stack Overflow, Trello, and other great products. Microsoft also provides offices (or at least used to). These companies might be on to something. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2008/12/29/the-new-fog-creek-... An opposing perspective: note that the cost for private offices is very high vs. cubes. Assuming Class A…

Microsoft used to provide offices but has been slowly doing away with them in favor of open office spaces. From what I understand, any new buildings they construct are designed around open offices.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#232

Post by thefunnyman »

perl4ever wrote: post #199
MattGaiser wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am defining “relationship” more broadly to encompass all my human (and dog in my case) relationships. I am not humblebragging about optimization. I have 24 hours in a day. They are generally all spoken for, meaning that for something to go in, something else must go out.

I don't understand how (and I think I've seen people implying it a lot besides you) office socialization takes away from socialization with other people elsewhere. Don't you, like, have to work during those hours regardless of your environment? Even working for the government, they kind of expect that.

You never take breaks during the work day?

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#233

Post by matz1 »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #227
matz1 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way, the company could maybe give some amount of money to help with the moving out cost or maybe allow for the employee to stay for a bit longer while they looking for new place to live.

Still that's a lot of hassle compared to just not having to move, such as from independent housing.

It maybe but independent housing has it downside: commute time and high cost.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#234

Post by bmat »

lukevp wrote: post #69
bmat wrote: post #66

If you work at one of these companies and are frustrated by the decision to return to the office, I encourage you to seriously consider leaving to pursue a remote-first career. Not only to send a message, but also because there are many great remote opportunities out there right now. Ironically I had this battle with Google pre-COVID back in 2019. I was worn down by my commute and itching for a change of environment,…

DM me if your company is hiring! I’m happy where I’m at (I left my previous workplace for the same reasons as you mentioned, and now work fully-remotely), but I’m always open to new opportunities. My current company is not fully-remote; my team is, but others are hybrid.

Sent you an email!

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#235

Post by bmat »

edem wrote: post #180
bmat wrote: post #66

If you work at one of these companies and are frustrated by the decision to return to the office, I encourage you to seriously consider leaving to pursue a remote-first career. Not only to send a message, but also because there are many great remote opportunities out there right now. Ironically I had this battle with Google pre-COVID back in 2019. I was worn down by my commute and itching for a change of environment,…

Can you DM me too? I'm just curious about the company.

Sent you an email :)

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#237

Post by bmat »

bradlys wrote: post #226
bmat wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to call out the company without their blessing, but they're a unicorn with $100M+ raised so that certainly helps them be competitive.

How are you getting paid more than Google if they're a private company? Are they paying $400k liquid? Monopoly money stocks cannot be factored in as real liquid comp unless you can actually liquidate it. If this is a known company to IPO in a year or something then maybe you can make an argument but... I don't think they're comparable, IMO.

Yes, liquid comp (salary+bonus) exceeds my total Google comp (salary+bonus+equity). I should qualify this by saying I left Google as an L4 SWE and I'm starting at this company as an engineering manager, so that factors in. But FWIW I got an offer for a tech lead position at another all-remote company, and it matched my Google total comp with just salary+bonus as well.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#238

Post by perl4ever »

thefunnyman wrote: post #232
perl4ever wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how (and I think I've seen people implying it a lot besides you) office socialization takes away from socialization with other people elsewhere. Don't you, like, have to work during those hours regardless of your environment? Even working for the government, they kind of expect that.

You never take breaks during the work day?

My breaks aren't anywhere near 8 hours.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#240

Post by sfcamp2020 »

jatone wrote: post #209
cratermoon wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A company basically pays you for your cost of living. That's why pay is high in the Bay Area or NY, and why you take a massive pay cut when you move out. That's the essence of another issue companies are forcing with remote work. It puts the lie to any claim that compensation is based on business value. Do I not provide the same value to the business if I live in Omaha, Nebraska rather than San Jose, California? Bu…

any company that told me the value of my work is tied to the location at which i accomplish it would immediately hit a wall with me being willing to work there. it simply is bonkers they've tried to pull that line out.

Agreed! Employees have to realize this is a very unique opportunity where the Companies have lost much of the strong arm wrenching used by what Human Resources has become. (basically, a way for companies to remind employees they are number and replaceable at any second.)

Companies are terrified that employees will flex some of these desires and flexibilities as not benefits, but open to as many jobs as possible. It removes their ability to keep employees focused on groveling in appreciation to be allowed to be in their presence.

If they let this go, employees may begin looking around and realizing why are the top 1% being paid ridiculous salaries with millions of shares given annually while whinning to unions, employees and anyone who can hear they have to continually cut benefits, pensions (what are those?) to barely keep profitable. (Question how can foreign companies continue to pay good benefits, have employee long term retention, etc. and not have it cause such damage to company profits?)

Employees have been trained and brainwashed for so long that only a scant few find the behvior described above as bonkers. Rather most have grown numb and believe it is normal for companies to tell them they deserve only what the company decides to toss their way.

It is bonkers they are pulling that line out, unfortunately it works very time.

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