Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? • Hacker News Board

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#231

Post by dazc » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 3:24 PM UTC

benou wrote: post #8

bserge wrote: post #3

I literally can't find a job in any kind of engineering. Applied for dozens of cleaning and production positions and couldn't get a job. You know what the media has become? A cesspool of bullshit unworthy of any trust. No wonder so many people mistrust actual experts, it's hard to even tell who they are.

I'm sorry to hear that but keep in mind the job market is very different from one location to another and from one sector to another. The BBC is talking about truck drivers in the UK and it is hardly a surprise: UK used to rely heavily on eastern Europe workers in that area, and they vote (Brexit) to prevent exactly that. They got what they asked for. If anything, we can complain that the BBC article title is too gen…

The shortage of lorry drivers in the USA is caused by Brexit too then?

I think you have fallen victim to journalism?

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#232

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 3:25 PM UTC

lucb1e wrote: post #103

Waterluvian wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you’re not trying to interview right here and now, but listing tools doesn’t move the needle. That’s not what employability in tech is measured by. I’m trying to hire for a number of software positions and that’s a common issue I see in resumes. I don’t want to hear that you’re a wizard with a hammer. I want to know about the times you lead a team in building a house from start to finish.

> I want to know about the times you lead a team in building a house from start to finish. What if that's not something I can do? If I'm really good at tech, am really good in terms of writing code fast, correct, and readable, but management just isn't for me? Would you not hire me for a software position, also not at a lower salary or with a junior label or something?

[deleted]

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#233

Post by ajb » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 3:26 PM UTC

BossingAround wrote: post #21

calltrak wrote: post #7

I am an unemployed programmer. I am 50 years old. I have 15 years of C#, 15 years of sql server, two years of golang, two years of node.js, vue.js, svelte, css, html, postgress, rabbitmq, etc etc etc.... My skills list is about 10 times this short list I just threw up. They tell me there is a skills and labor shortage in tech. That's complete bullshit I am UNEMPLOYED for a year. I don't believe one dam word the gover…

Might also be an attitude problem on your side. If you're serious about getting a job, consider coaching. This "nobody is hiring, everything sucks, and I'm the victim here" narrative isn't really helping you. Also, bringing up stuff like "lies about the cough" (which I assume is OP talking about COVID) absolutely undermines your credibility as an individual capable of critical thinking, which is necessary for softwar…

Would you rather , on this site, people post what they honestly think, or what they would say in a job interview situation? Because if the latter, you might be better off not assuming that the OP is dumb enough to let out their unvarnished thoughts in an interview.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#234

Post by User23 » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 3:27 PM UTC

cbozeman wrote: post #188

whall6 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Why would I seek a job if the unemployment benefits pay me nearly as much to do nothing?

Because you have self-respect and shouldn't be taking handouts if you're capable of working? No one capable of working should be taking unemployment, ever. This is how social safety nets get demonized by politicians, and it works. A factory worker and mother of three who was making car parts from the start of COVID-19 until now and was never laid off and who never had the option of quitting work, fucking hates someon…

Unemployment is one of the few ways government has ever done anything for me personally as opposed to general social goods. As a net payer into the system for the overwhelming majority of my working life I have absolutely no objection to getting a little of that money back when I hit a rough patch.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#235

Post by shadowgovt » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 3:28 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #221

m0llusk wrote: post #88

It is strange that the top known factors for this are not even mentioned in this or other similar news stories. First, closing of schools caused large numbers of women to leave the workforce in order to care for children. Until schools are fully open and day care is available those women will probably not be going back to work. Second, all markets are cultivated things. Employers in the most troubled sectors have rec…

> It is strange that the top known factors for this are not even mentioned in this or other similar news stories. First, closing of schools caused large numbers of women to leave the workforce in order to care for children. I'm a bit skeptical of that explanation in the US because schools close for 3 months every summer, without an accompanying large number of women quitting their jobs.

Between summer camps and the weather being nice enough to just go outside and entertain oneself, the 3-month summer vacation is a notably different effect on the economy than the year-long covid isolation with indeterminate future horizon.

What you find when you look at the numbers is an awful lot of White collar firms simply get less done during the summer months. "We expect to move forward on that project, but we're blocked on the report from the ads team, and 2/3 of the ads team just took a week-long vacation with their families" is a common pattern in summer.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#236

Post by dazc » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

jen20 wrote: post #102

bko wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a market economy there is no such thing as a "shortage" of workers. You just don't want to meet the market price of the workers with that skill set. You could imagine a widget factory whose economics rely on paying employees X, it doesn't mean there's a "shortage" of workers, but the workers demand a wage that makes your work unprofitable. The fact is a lot of people are paid not to work through generous covid-rel…

> In a market economy there is no such thing as a "shortage" of workers You need a license to drive a truck in the UK (the actual subject of the article). It takes a minimum of two months acquire [1]. Even paying a thousand dollars an hour does not magic more qualified candidates into existence at short notice as you appear to propose. The reason for the shortage is the trivially foreseeable effects of idiotic hard-l…

There are currently many more licensed UK drivers not working in the industry than there are vacancies.

Maybe ask why so many people have chosen to do other things such as amazon delivery or other such jobs that pay better, have better conditions and don't require regular medicals and certification, etc paid from one's own pocket?

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#237

Post by pillefitz » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

cbozeman wrote: post #188

whall6 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Why would I seek a job if the unemployment benefits pay me nearly as much to do nothing?

Because you have self-respect and shouldn't be taking handouts if you're capable of working? No one capable of working should be taking unemployment, ever. This is how social safety nets get demonized by politicians, and it works. A factory worker and mother of three who was making car parts from the start of COVID-19 until now and was never laid off and who never had the option of quitting work, fucking hates someon…

Lacking self-respect for refusing to slave away in bullshit jobs that destroy our environment directly or indirectly, make some rich guy even richer or take place in a toxic work environment you mean?

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#238

Post by nradov » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

bumby wrote: post #149

nradov wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the problems with minimum wage laws: they prevent the labor market from clearing. Some people want to work but due to lack of skills their labor is worth less than the minimum and thus no employer will hire them. I understand that people can't live on less than the minimum wage. But the solution to that is a proper social safety net, not imposing arbitrary minimum wage limits.

> But the solution to that is a proper social safety net Playing devils advocate with your logic, how is this different from preventing the market from “clearing” non-viable businesses? I.e., don’t many safety net programs essentially subsidize business profits by allowing employers to lower wages?

It's different because allowing people to work for low wages gives them a chance to improve their skills and move up to higher wage jobs rather than perpetually living off welfare.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#239

Post by toofy » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

RHSeeger wrote: post #224

effingwewt wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in California every restaurant/fast food place is hiring. They all list the things they offer (PTO, 401k-no matching what you put in, and that's it). What they don't put on the signs is what they pay (minimum wage every single time), or the hours (always part time, always weekends, mostly if not always nights. But obviously it's just that no one wants to work, it couldn't possibly be because no one wants part-ti…

Without trying to counteract your points about the pay/work/parttime/etc.... It's worth noting that a large number of restaurant owners make very little money. The margins/profits in that industry are razor thin. So the owner making less wouldn't be helpful, or even an option for many of them.

I think there’s some merit in what you say, I’m just not sure we would agree on how to define “…large number of restaurant owners…”

This is completely anecdotal, but I know three different restaurant owners and all three of them live very very comfortably. Again, that’s just anecdotal so probably not worth much.

While I don’t think anyone would suggest that a restaurant owner should live in poverty, at the same time I don’t think we would suggest a restaurant worker should be poverty levels of poor to ensure the owner lives the high life.

If a business cant supply both its owner and workers a livable wage, then we should expect the business to go under rather than expect (or demand) the workers descend into poverty.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#240

Post by hncurious » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 3:37 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #4

bserge wrote: post #3

I literally can't find a job in any kind of engineering. Applied for dozens of cleaning and production positions and couldn't get a job. You know what the media has become? A cesspool of bullshit unworthy of any trust. No wonder so many people mistrust actual experts, it's hard to even tell who they are.

Hey, try being over 50. I just gave up, and retired early. Best decision I ever made. I'm working for free, with NPOs, and it's been a joy. The worst part, for me, has been the naked contempt and disrespect. I don't expect to be worshipped, but raw insults are beyond the pale. It's -literally- like a hazing ritual. With all the news about "frat boy culture," I think I see where it comes from. I don't think it's just…

Tech was once not that respected, & mostly full of nerds who were just way into tech. But then tech rose in status & income, & was invaded by top school kids seeking such things, who took over the top slots. These new kids didn’t much respect older tech folks from wrong schools.

https://twitter.com/robinhanson/status/1421212798881722368