The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory • Hacker News Board

Re: The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory

#231

Post by mikem170 » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:38 AM UTC

forcry wrote: post #228

mikem170 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that it is tough that there are so many unfiltered voices on this. I've been giving the most weight to dna-based evidence, and explanations from virologists, and critiques from other virologists. It is understandable that others look for different sources of truth as they see fit.

The sad fact of the situation that argument by some proxy does not really work. A person goes like "Here is what my scientist say!" and the others are like "No, you are wrong! Here is what my scientist say". It is quite funny thing. But in the link you posted > https://respectfulinsolence.com/2021/06/11/cggcgg-the-latest... I often found that site to be less trustworthy because of a large part of the beginning of the…

I didn't like the beginning of that article either. I ran with it at that moment because it can take a while to dig up references and I really liked the DNA-level explanations in that one, which I've been following as much as I can and have grown to prefer. I feel like I've been able to cut through a lot of noise that way, and I'm learning a lot.

The virologists describing things at the that level seem to have converged on similar set of possibilities, and the need for additional data to be certain of anything. It's my understanding that they've been saying "man-made impractical if not impossible, probably natural spillover which happens all the time, lab leak is not impossible, need more data" since last spring.

It could be that non-virologists argue about this more than virologists... lol

Re: The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory

#232

Post by mikem170 » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:39 AM UTC

forcry wrote: post #227

mikem170 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how come you didn't reply to the original parent's statement that: > Some people think it's relevant that a new coronavirus emerged next door to a lab working on new coronaviruses There's no definitive proof of this, either! Forster admits that his research is not definitive. The comparison of his A and B strains to the nearest known relative, the bat virus, as a founding variant may be wrong. I understand that th…

>There's no definitive proof of this, either! I really don't understand what you are saying. Weren't all the first cases identified around Wuhan? Just because some other variant was found to be dominant elsewhere a later point in time does not appear to suggest anything contradictory to me.

> Just because some other variant was found to be dominant elsewhere a later point in time does not appear to suggest anything contradictory to me.

That's the thing, the early variants Forster identified could have migrated in either direction. Nobody is questioning the differences between his identified A and B variants, just the directionality. The expert consensus seems to be "too early to know for sure".

That's what I'm saying. Forster might be right, and this came from south of Wuhan. Even his critics say that he may not be right, they don't say he's wrong. We don't know for sure.

Can you appreciate the difference? You seem to be saying "this definitely started in Wuhan" when it appears that is not certain.

Re: The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory

#233

Post by aliasEli » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 7:15 AM UTC

mikem170 wrote: post #135

forcry wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The bottom line is that the evidence we have at this time points to nature as the most probable origin.. Some scientists think otherwise, quite strongly in the opposite direction, it seems.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeW5sI-R1Qg and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbbJaaMG7Bs

I found this link [0] that seems to debunk, in a lot of detail, the congressional testimony of these two physicists on the specifics of their claims for evidence of gain of function manipulation in the gentic sequence of covid-19. That jives with another source [1] that explained, amongst other things, that there's genetic evidence covid-19 evolved in animals with intact immune systems, not in a lab. [0] https://resp…

> there's genetic evidence covid-19 evolved in animals with intact immune systems, not in a lab

They had live animals in the lab.