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On Smoking

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Re: On Smoking

#231

Post by qq4 »

refulgentis wrote: post #227
qq4 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always had a hard time with this because I would think we would see people horribly addicted to nicotine patches and lozenges if this were true. What makes a cigarette so different?

There's a ritual, an experience. There's something _to do_: I don't understand how you live your day, you just sit at the same desk in the same small apartment all day? No pause? It's like hearing someone prefers an 8 hour movie Edit: this isn't...an attack...it's a humorous attempt to gat at genuinely how I feel, as a smoker, about people who don't smoke

I would argue that sucking on a lozenge is about as much of a ritual as sucking on a cigarette.

Re: On Smoking

#232

Post by [deleted] »

murat131 wrote: post #3

The thing about smoking is that when you quit smoking you quit it every day. Imagine a light switch on the wall. You turn it off by quitting smoking and you can always go back at a desperate time for instance and turn it on. And some time later off again. Smoking your first cigarette implants that light switch on your mind and you can't make it go away. Since you know how it makes you feel good when the switch is on,…

[deleted]

Re: On Smoking

#234

Post by reissbaker »

unixhero wrote: post #24
murat131 wrote: post #3

The thing about smoking is that when you quit smoking you quit it every day. Imagine a light switch on the wall. You turn it off by quitting smoking and you can always go back at a desperate time for instance and turn it on. And some time later off again. Smoking your first cigarette implants that light switch on your mind and you can't make it go away. Since you know how it makes you feel good when the switch is on,…

I quit smoking, and it was very very hard. I don't agree with you that the addiction, need and nicotine + other triggers will remain with me until the end of time. Deprogramming is part of the process of quitting to smoke. I do now never want to smoke. It is not attractive to me as a way to relax or focus. I can stand in a tobacco section of an airport taxfree shop holding a 5 cartons in my hands with absolutely no d…

+1. I quit smoking a little over a decade ago, gradually, by winnowing myself down cigarette-by-cigarette. If I smoked six cigarettes a day, for the next two weeks I'd smoke five; by the end of two weeks I'd stop feeling the urge for a sixth. Then I'd move down to four, etc etc, until finally I was down to two and just stopped entirely.

For the first year after stopping regularly smoking, I still felt the urge when drinking, and sometimes would have a cigarette with drinks on the weekend. After two years, I mostly stopped even wanting that.

For many years after, cigarette smoke still smelled good to me, although I had no daily urge for one. But eventually even the positive association with the smell faded, and now I'm back to the original state of thinking cigarettes smell bad.

Nicotine's hooks run deep, but they're not permanent. Stay away long enough and you'll eventually make it back to wondering why anyone smokes in the first place.

I think it's important for people who are addicted to know that quitting is possible — you aren't permanently rewired. And it doesn't have to consume your life.

Re: On Smoking

#235

Post by qq4 »

raptorraver wrote: post #228
qq4 wrote: post #202

Since there seem to be past smokers in this thread, can any of you chime in for me what smoking did or does for you? I don't mean this as a insult, but I've never understood the addiction, at this point I feel like it's impossible for me to experience, and I don't desire to. I've smoked maybe a dozen or so times in my life, each time a dumb decision often for comedic effect where I asked myself afterwards, "am I addi…

First few times I felt a little high for a minute but I mostly started because I thought it is cool to smoke. Allen Carr - the guy who wrote the book Easy Way which have helped me and millions of others to kick the habit - has described that smokers smoke to feel the same way as non smokers feel all the time. Nicotine is hell of a drug, it doesn't give you a lot but withdrawals make you anxious and restless, smoking…

Would you say it's a feeling of artificial normality? I read once that some schizophrenics smoke as a method of self treatment. I'm not sure how else to understand how a nonsmoker feels all the time. Did you ever feel a high sensation again, or was it just the first few times? I'm not familiar with nicotine as a psychoactive drug. From what I'm gathering in other comments, it seems like a user manifests a habit, say wanting to look cool by smoking, and nicotine reinforces it with punishing withdrawal and a restless calling to said habit.

Re: On Smoking

#236

Post by girvo »

throw20210211 wrote: post #211
Baeocystin wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't smoke, but my roommate does. After living in the same house for a couple of years, now, I think I understand the social aspect of why people start. A cigarette break is the perfect amount of time to sit down and have a little chat, and provides a reason to stop once it's done, too. Meet on the deck, catch up on each other's day, see you later, back to work. That kind of thing.

Could do the exact same thing with... a bottle of water instead. I guess it's not cool enough though.

It's about social rituals. If you can create one of those with the people around you without addictive substances, more power to you! But coffee and cigarettes: they come with prexisting societal level rituals out of the box, so to speak.

Re: On Smoking

#238

Post by refulgentis »

qq4 wrote: post #231
refulgentis wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a ritual, an experience. There's something _to do_: I don't understand how you live your day, you just sit at the same desk in the same small apartment all day? No pause? It's like hearing someone prefers an 8 hour movie Edit: this isn't...an attack...it's a humorous attempt to gat at genuinely how I feel, as a smoker, about people who don't smoke

I would argue that sucking on a lozenge is about as much of a ritual as sucking on a cigarette.

In my head, the lozenge is background noise whereas the cigarette means I'm outside, gotta get a jacket, mask on, bring a coffee, etc

Re: On Smoking

#239

Post by wirrbel »

Baeocystin wrote: post #169
mavhc wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people start smoking? Surely they know it's addictive, expensive, and bad for you

I don't smoke, but my roommate does. After living in the same house for a couple of years, now, I think I understand the social aspect of why people start. A cigarette break is the perfect amount of time to sit down and have a little chat, and provides a reason to stop once it's done, too. Meet on the deck, catch up on each other's day, see you later, back to work. That kind of thing.

I can totally understand that. I would just suggest to reconsider coffee/tea drinking in that regard (or whatever drink might serve as a substitute).

Already when studying/researching at Uni having a cup of coffee together did serve as such a communal break, catching up, etc. When I did an abroad term in Canada what hit me by surprise is that people would get take-away coffee and would ONLY drink it at their desks browsing Facebook. As a European it didn't take me long to find a Dutch guy who had the same feeling about joint coffee breaks and we became buddies.

Re: On Smoking

#240

Post by girvo »

strken wrote: post #168
defaultname wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your stats in absolutely no way counters my claim about addiction. Almost everyone who smokes to any degree becomes addicted and a regular user. Tens (100 million+) of millions of Americans drink occasionally with no addiction. Alcohol is a dangerous drug in every dimension, and I specifically said that. But their addiction profiles are dramatically different.

This is an absolutely ridiculous claim given the number of people I know who've had a first cigarette and not touched a second. Business Insider claims 76% of the population have smoked and 24% have become addicted, while 92% have consumed alcohol and 14% have become addicted[0]. That's nowhere near "almost everyone", it's 31%, and 15% for alcohol. [0] https://www.businessinsider.com.au/most-addictive-substances...

Addiction rates are lower than people think; heroin, even, is lower than you'd assume (the rate I remember seeing was about 25%, in-line with nicotine).

Of course, 1/4 is still a HUGE amount of people, and an absolute health crisis.

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