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Why Russians do not smile (2002)

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Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#231

Post by bradrn »

cperciva wrote: post #229
davidgh wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Молодец, нельзя, фу, тоска, почемучка. When learning Russian these are just a few of the words I found myself saying even when speaking English. Which gives a hint that a good direct translation maybe isn’t quite there.

There's a rule in linguistics, that the more often a word is used, the shorter it will be -- almost like Huffman coding. In that light, comparing the one-syllable English "Why?" to the three-syllable Russian "почему?" says something about the safety of asking questions in different countries.

> There's a rule in linguistics, that the more often a word is used, the shorter it will be

I’m really interested in linguistics, but I’ve never heard of such a rule. Could you give a source please? I’d be curious to know if this is true.

(A striking counterexample I ran into just yesterday: the Urim word for ‘head’ is tukŋunakŋ, and ‘we (incl.)’ is mentepm-. I don’t think this is because Urim people avoid talking about heads or groups of people. That being said, it’s tricky concluding anything from a sample size of n=1.)

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#232

Post by cperciva »

bradrn wrote: post #231
cperciva wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a rule in linguistics, that the more often a word is used, the shorter it will be -- almost like Huffman coding. In that light, comparing the one-syllable English "Why?" to the three-syllable Russian "почему?" says something about the safety of asking questions in different countries.

> There's a rule in linguistics, that the more often a word is used, the shorter it will be I’m really interested in linguistics, but I’ve never heard of such a rule. Could you give a source please? I’d be curious to know if this is true. (A striking counterexample I ran into just yesterday: the Urim word for ‘head’ is tukŋunakŋ , and ‘we (incl.)’ is mentepm- . I don’t think this is because Urim people avoid talking…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brevity_law

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#233

Post by ngcc_hk »

c-smile wrote: post #211
cosmodisk wrote: post #116

Plenty of contribution already,so I'll just add a personal anecdote. Some years ago I happened to have some beers with a Latvian Russian,who lived here, in London. He tells us that he doesn't get the Brits. He just doesn't understand the reasoning in some situations. I ask to elaborate. He says: last year, I had a pretty serious trauma and ended up in a hospital. It's so bad, pain, lots of tests,etc. And I'm pretty f…

Russian here (to be precise Russian Canadian of Ukrainian descent :-) There is a saying in Russian: if a stranger, on your question "how are you?" (ru: как дела?), starts explaining in details what is happening with him/her - please know, you've met complete idiot. So I am classifying that 'how are you?' as never ending test of my life position :)

A bit confused. My mental model is - Ukraine is part of Soviet Union - currently the Russian speaking Ukraine part is well ...

other than that I do not associate Ukrainian as Russian. They are separately in identity ?

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#234

Post by rectang »

IgorPartola wrote: post #226

I am Ukrainian. Came to the US when I was 14. I may never be cool like all the hard looking dudes in movies and whatnot but I smile all the time because either I find something funny in what I’m engaged in or if I don’t that I try to think of it as such. I have always been this way and I can’t imagine not doing it. Also, I have read a few comments in this discussion about how fake American smiles and “how are you?”s…

You sound like a lovely person, Igor. You've gifted many passers-by delightful little blooms of human connection.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#235

Post by bradrn »

cperciva wrote: post #232
bradrn wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a rule in linguistics, that the more often a word is used, the shorter it will be I’m really interested in linguistics, but I’ve never heard of such a rule. Could you give a source please? I’d be curious to know if this is true. (A striking counterexample I ran into just yesterday: the Urim word for ‘head’ is tukŋunakŋ , and ‘we (incl.)’ is mentepm- . I don’t think this is because Urim people avoid talking…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brevity_law

Interesting — I’ll have to look into this. Thank you!

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#236

Post by matheusmoreira »

3pt14159 wrote: post #146
cosmodisk wrote: post #116

Plenty of contribution already,so I'll just add a personal anecdote. Some years ago I happened to have some beers with a Latvian Russian,who lived here, in London. He tells us that he doesn't get the Brits. He just doesn't understand the reasoning in some situations. I ask to elaborate. He says: last year, I had a pretty serious trauma and ended up in a hospital. It's so bad, pain, lots of tests,etc. And I'm pretty f…

Russians are so extreme. Even though my favourite professors at Waterloo in Canada were Russian, it wasn't until I learned some basic Russian that I finally got over the typical view of them drilled into people by Hollywood. Your run of the mill Russian is honest about their feelings. Not honest about the facts, no, they can cheat on an insurance filing just fine. But that coldness that so many of them seem to have i…

I once met a russian person online who had learned portuguese, my native language. I was extremely impressed. To this day I've never seen anyone else learn portuguese as a second language.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#237

Post by sebmellen »

djmips wrote: post #114
firebaze wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't second this. Everytime I'm in the US I'm scared of all the friendly, smiling people, asking "How are you?" in such a friendly tone, it's delightful. Of course it's faked, anyone knows, and dare if you'd reply with "not good, my aunt just died". Awkward situation ensues, everybody tries to get out of the situation ("and what would you like to have for breakfast tomorrow?"). Now replay the same situation in ano…

I don't think so. Try it "not good, my aunt just died" and not every American but many would try to comfort you. Not saying it wouldn't be a bit awkward but that it's not 'just faked' and everyone tries to get out of any real emotion.

True!

I have people tell me their bad news or downers pretty often when I greet them with “how are you?”, and my care or sympathy for the situation they’re in is not at all insincere.

I’m half German, and my grandfather always found it absurd to visit the US and have everyone saying “thank you” and “sorry” and smiling all the time. His opinion was that this behavior devalued the true meaning of a “thank you” or a smile.

Interestingly, Germans have now adopted two words for sorry, one being just “sorry” (spoken with a guttural “r”) and the other being “Entschuldigung“ — literally translates to something like “acceptance of blame.” The German “sorry” is much more common, and “Entschuldigung” is reserved for the true apologies, maybe analogous to “I apologize” in American English. Then it might be “ich entschuldige mich” or “I place the fault on myself.”

I mention this because it seems the “American” way of being more colloquially friendly is becoming more adopted in parts of Europe, especially by younger generations in areas like Germany and the Netherlands. Maybe this is just from exposure to American media.

Whatever the cause, I find this shift pleasant, as it saves me from having to code-switch between American friendliness and German staunchness when I talk with friends or family there (except for the older generations).

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#238

Post by sunshineforever »

geocrasher wrote: post #183
cosmodisk wrote: post #116

Plenty of contribution already,so I'll just add a personal anecdote. Some years ago I happened to have some beers with a Latvian Russian,who lived here, in London. He tells us that he doesn't get the Brits. He just doesn't understand the reasoning in some situations. I ask to elaborate. He says: last year, I had a pretty serious trauma and ended up in a hospital. It's so bad, pain, lots of tests,etc. And I'm pretty f…

When my wife was dying (she has since passed away) and nobody could figure out her illness, she'd be in the most wretched pain, in the ER again, and she'd be retching awfully and almost uncontrollably. A doctor would walk in, having heard of all this already and ask "How are you?" Sometimes she gave them the benefit of the doubt, and sometimes she was a bit less charitable. My point? Americans (as she was), Russians,…

I have a difficult life and I'm growing very tired of this question. I've even had to ask some of my neighbors not to greet me that way.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#239

Post by FD59A945 »

ngcc_hk wrote: post #233
c-smile wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian here (to be precise Russian Canadian of Ukrainian descent :-) There is a saying in Russian: if a stranger, on your question "how are you?" (ru: как дела?), starts explaining in details what is happening with him/her - please know, you've met complete idiot. So I am classifying that 'how are you?' as never ending test of my life position :)

A bit confused. My mental model is - Ukraine is part of Soviet Union - currently the Russian speaking Ukraine part is well ... other than that I do not associate Ukrainian as Russian. They are separately in identity ?

> They are separately in identity ?

That is a heavily debated question, both in Russia and Ukraine. It is possible to say the "russian" culture originated in (what is today) Ukraine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus

What we now call "Russia" was the expanding frontier of the original.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#240

Post by xvilka »

userbinator wrote: post #55

With masks being socially acceptable in most if not all the world now, I wonder if the lack of visible smile that causes will change the perception of a smile in places where people usually smile by default.

You can easily see if someone is smiling even when in mask - the "smiling eyes".
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