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U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#231

Post by suifbwish »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #48

Pretty hype about this TBH. There is a long history of companies domiciling in say, Monaco, The Cayman Island, Panama etc to avoid taxes and regulations where they mainly operate. My understanding is that the current process in vogue for the mega cap companies is the "double irish dutch sandwich" https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/double-irish-with-a-dut... No one, including tax lawyers, will tell you with a straig…

Here’s an idea. How about the government starts creating its own wealth and resources with investments in nationalized factories, farms ect with some of the wealth it has been given instead of relying on parasitically stealing it from the work of its citizens.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#232

Post by Smarjerry »

zionic wrote: post #91
somethingwitty1 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find this kind of thought interesting. The government provides a ton of things. Do you use public roads or sidewalks? Do you live, work or shop in a structure that adheres to building codes? Do you have power? Do you have access to the internet? Do you enjoy food that doesn't kill you? So many of these things wouldn't be possible for the general population without government. It takes money to operate a gove…

>Do you use public roads or sidewalks? Yes, and that is paid for by my outrageous property/vehicle registration/gas taxes. Huge portions of our cities have roads in near 3rd-world conditions. The major arteries of every top-50 US city grind to a halt twice a day, and you have been conditioned to believe this is normal/acceptable. Our bridges, roads, and railways are falling apart. > Do you live, work or shop in a str…

What is surprising in the US is they don't teach anyone about taxes in grades 1-12 and even in college it is optional. You can see that translate into even forums like this with potentially wealthier people, but even here many don't recognize all the various levels of taxes and what is contributing to what. Federal income taxes for example are what most people recognize as taxes and that mostly only goes towards federal items, federal meaning, national, such as military, border, and other interstate agencies. We need to literally teach about taxes in school, that is the only way people will learn.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#233

Post by topicseed »

s_dev wrote: post #109
0xB31B1B wrote: post #48

Pretty hype about this TBH. There is a long history of companies domiciling in say, Monaco, The Cayman Island, Panama etc to avoid taxes and regulations where they mainly operate. My understanding is that the current process in vogue for the mega cap companies is the "double irish dutch sandwich" https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/double-irish-with-a-dut... No one, including tax lawyers, will tell you with a straig…

>My understanding is that the current process in vogue for the mega cap companies is the "double irish dutch sandwich" You're understanding is outdated this mechanism is finished as of 2018. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement However this article is a little biased -- it's main contributor is a user called "Britishfinance" -- who appears to be a London based corporate shill to take the heat off th…

> to take the heat off the City of London being a tax haven

What exactly makes the City of London a tax haven? If anything, it is not a tax haven itself but a facilitator to set up structures in some Crown Dependencies.

But that makes it a financial and corporate service capital, not a tax haven (i.e., "a country or independent area where taxes are levied at a low rate")

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#234

Post by topicseed »

suifbwish wrote: post #223
0xB31B1B wrote: post #48

Pretty hype about this TBH. There is a long history of companies domiciling in say, Monaco, The Cayman Island, Panama etc to avoid taxes and regulations where they mainly operate. My understanding is that the current process in vogue for the mega cap companies is the "double irish dutch sandwich" https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/double-irish-with-a-dut... No one, including tax lawyers, will tell you with a straig…

Would it really be that difficult for a big company like Google or Facebook to operate from a fleet of floating data centers in international waters utilizing dedicated satellites for connectivity? If you denounce your citizenship and do not declare a new nationality you are only bound by maritime law.

In a situation like that, the place if effectice management and/or the central management and control would probably be how the tax residency is decided.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#235

Post by lefty2 »

codeecan wrote: post #37

If they would just close the loop holes that allow things like having Apple, setup a subsidiary that licenses its own stuff back to itself so it can move profits around the world ... you'd solve this problem. Make a rule, if you own >50% of a company, you can't buy trademarks, patents, whatever from yourself.

They don't want to close the loopholes, because the loopholes give American companies an advantage over foreign companies.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#236

Post by mardifoufs »

candiodari wrote: post #220
mardifoufs wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's literally a reddit conspiracy theory propped up on r/Ireland. Everything seems to indicate the editor you mentioned is very well informed & doesn't have any COI a part from vague allegations. Like what do people think, some guy working in the City spent tons of time making extremely well sourced and well constructed articles just to... Divert some sort of "heat" from the entire London financial sector... On Wi…

The point that there is no shortage of tax havens in the EU itself, including leading EU nations, is true. Luxembourg, City of London, Liechtenstein, Monaco, Netherlands, Belgium, the Vatican, Switzerland (sort of), Malta, all for slightly different reasons. I've even read articles from these nations where they point out that the only way they'll ever distinguish themselves is with tax law. Or rather: that they'd be…

Completely agree on all points, especially the last one. I'd argue that it's a very vicious way to remove international competition for the US now that they have effectively developed a thriving economy. It's just a much bigger form of regulatory capture Imo and some countries might gain way more by having lower taxes than whatever they would have with a 15% tax rate.

But to be clear my comment was really just about the specific wiki article he linked to and the weird rumours that spawned around it. Otherwise I usually don't even try to comment on anything related to economics or finance here on HN anymore, it's just not the... right platform for that Imo.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#237

Post by mardifoufs »

permo-w wrote: post #217
missedthecue wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a lot of words to say competition. Competition is good.

that's a very naive attitude. the financial regulators were competing before the 2008 crash. what were they competing for? who could give the most lenient ratings. what are nations competing for? who can afford to take the least tax revenue who can afford to take the least tax revenue? already rich countries, or countries that don't give a shit about distributing wealth equally who continues to get richer? I'll let y…

What do you mean? Credit rating agencies are not regulators. Plus, pretty strict regulations around credit ratings and their essential role in portfolio composition were already in place at the time. In fact you could arguably say that they were actually one of the reasons behind the severity of the crisis.

And even if we put aside that very glaring error aside, if your comment was true Scandinavia or some parts of Europe would've a lot more multinationals than the US, since their corporate tax rates are already lower than in the US. You can also take for example, Spain which has had a ~similar tax rate than the US before 2017, why don't they have a bigger economy per capita if it was that easy and countries were competing to lower taxes?

Corporations aren't individuals btw, and taxing the dividends or capital gains is much more efficient. Eventually, any money you don't tax from a corporation usually flows back to the investors in one way or another. So even if you want higher taxes, corporate taxation is usually just something that "sounds good" or is knee jerk reaction to "stick it" to the big corps rather than to actually get more tax revenue.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#238

Post by JamesBarney »

permo-w wrote: post #228
JamesBarney wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most economists think infinite growth in a finite world is a good idea. Most economists thing growth and raising people's incomes is a good idea. Capitalism seems like a pretty good deal. Are there any other governments or societies you would think it would benefit the U.S. to switch to?

I can name 5 without even putting 10 seconds' thought into it

And those 5 are?

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#239

Post by dnautics »

hungryforcodes wrote: post #155
dnautics wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

taxing people's assets is complicated as hell. How much is your house worth. And before you answer that question, have you been in a bubbly market? Quotes for houses in the place I've been have gone up by 10% in the last 4 months. Now, suppose you have bought a house and suddenly all of your neighbors are rich. An appraiser comes to your place and suddenly you owe taxes and you basically get evicted from your home un…

Housing evaluations are very straight forward -- the market is what decides the price. Unless your house is something exotic like a castle or something. Every year the city or region you live in has a process to evaluate this value, and then asks you to pay a tax based on this. Generally if you feel the taxation is unfair, you can just sell the house -- if it doubled in value from the year before, according to the ma…

> Generally if you feel the taxation is unfair, you can just sell the house

let's just be clear about what you're saying. It's okay to effectively force people off of their homes that they have built an emotional attachment to. Perhaps their family has lived there for a few generations. They should just take the money and shut up.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#240

Post by dnautics »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #141
dnautics wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all just because we are afraid of the T word. A uniform tariff and matching currency export control achieves the same effect, and doesn't impose US hegemony on the rest of the wrold.

So instead of actually fixing the problem - we should just hope that our government arbitrarily applies Tariffs to the right companies in the right amounts? Certainly that won't ever be abused to screw over one company and benefit another for political purposes, right? And, seemingly, a tax authority (the IRS) would be better equipped to calculate these amounts anyway.

> arbitrarily applies Tariffs

Nope. A blanket tariff that applies to everything equally.

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