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Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

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Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#231

Post by insert_coin »

tshaddox wrote: post #223
xyzelement wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A competitive market would enable me to sort by salary and benefits and apply for the best job. I am always surprised to see comments that make it sound like jobs (or, employees) are fungible commodities that can be bought and sold purely on price. One simple example - two jobs may have the same title (Senior Developer, or whatever) but have totally different expectations of communication skills, leadership skills,…

If I’m looking for a job, it’s already on me to try to limit my search to positions I’m qualified for. Providing me with the salary information for each job doesn’t make that task any more difficult.

But they don't and yet you still have a job (I hope).

And the reason is because when you are looking for a job other things are more important than knowing the salary even before you apply or they seriously consider you.

Everyone does whatever they can get away with, and the moment we accept that everything becomes clear. They are all trying to benefit themselves, just as you are by trying to learn some information before the other party feel the need to share it with you.

Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#232

Post by sangnoir »

xyzelement wrote: post #135
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #55

A competitive market would enable me to sort by salary and benefits and apply for the best job. However companies don't want to compete on salary, and potentialy drive them up - they want maximum leverage. They get more leverage if process is obscure, so that you only agree salary late in the process and for the applicant, pulling out is risky. The market is not really free - its being manipulated by one side. Simila…

> A competitive market would enable me to sort by salary and benefits and apply for the best job. I am always surprised to see comments that make it sound like jobs (or, employees) are fungible commodities that can be bought and sold purely on price. One simple example - two jobs may have the same title (Senior Developer, or whatever) but have totally different expectations of communication skills, leadership skills,…

> Or the situation where a company is very flexible on who they hire and thus would pay a lot more or a lot less depending on what the individual brings to the table.

You're making it sound like the companies are being forced to pay the same salary for the same role - they are not, and this is a straw man argument. The companies should publish the salary range - they are free to adjust the offers within the range depending on skills & experience of the successful candidate. If the range is $20k - $180k to cater for the "rockstar" who brings a lot - then they ought to publish that range and be prepared to explain to a candidate why the company thinks a candidate deserves $20k/yr and see how that goes.

An equivalent scenario to what's happening on the job market outside Colorado would be houses being sold without displaying the asking prices - all potential buyers would be expected to jump through all the hoops and be asked to "make an offer" without being able to make comparisons on how much other similar houses on the market are going for. Instead, they'd be asked "How much did you pay for the last house you bought?" or "How much are you currently paying in rent?"

Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#233

Post by ryandrake »

whiddershins wrote: post #119

I used to think keeping salaries secret was a racket. And maybe it is. But I also think there might be people you work with who try hard, do decent work slowly, and are compensated accordingly. (Fairly) And who are delighted with their job and salary. How would it benefit that person to be confronted with the fact that someone else makes double or triple what they do?

Maybe it could serve as a much needed wake-up call to that person. I was him long ago, and finding out someone made 50% more than me for doing essentially the same job provided exactly the kick in the ass I needed to start job hunting again.

Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#234

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

Hmm...looks like a good way to filter out companies not worth applying to.

That's easy for me to say, though. I am not looking for work; especially not with corporations that want to begin our relationship on a platform of dishonesty. I'm fairly big on that whole "Integrity" thing. I know it's not in fashion, these days, but I'm a bit "old-skool."

Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#235

Post by cptskippy »

borvo wrote: post #186
gambiting wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>With housing (in UK) there is no competition on quality because the seller doesn't have to disclose any problems with the house. If it falls of a cliff the minute you sign on the dotted line, it's your problem. I'm in the UK and that's absolutely not true. If you think the owner knew about the problem and purposefully omitted telling you, then you definitely have a court case and any law firm worth their salt will…

I’m looking at 5 houses and want to pick the best one. Of course I need to see the surveys now. Tell me which bank is this that will pay for the 5 surveys?

What does a survey consist of and why are they so expensive?

In the US we have home inspectors, and we have surveyors. A home inspector is generally responsible for auditing the structure and mechanicals of the home for issues. A surveyor is only responsible for identifying property boundaries.

A home inspection is under $1000, usually $250-500. I don't know what a survey costs as I've never been involved in a property boundary dispute as US homes are generally on large enough plots that encroachment issues aren't that common.

Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#236

Post by reedjosh »

pmorici wrote: post #167
wbl wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US the buyer hires an inspector after the contract is agreed and the transfer can be voided if the inspector finds serious issues. Typically the price gets adjusted.

Home inspectors are a borderline scam. In my experience they never find any of the real problems and only surface superficial stuff that should be obvious even to a layman. This probably is because many buyers go with the inspector recommendation of their realtor and realtors aren’t going to recommend someone that is too through to the point of risking the deal.

In that vein realtors are basically a scam.

A decent inspector can and will find things, but true it may be difficult to find one.

I think the solution is going to be an unpopular take--learn about the world and be able to do a lot of this stuff yourself.

I bought my house without a realtor and without an inspection. My house needed work for sure, but I got a great deal and learning experience in both the buying and repair/maintenance. I spend my evenings working on the house instead of watching tv and eating garbage. Three years later I have a few 100k in equity.

I do wish the world was full of trustworthy people and life was easy, but no number of bureaucratic requirements are going to make these problems go away. If you live in a world you don't understand, you will be taken advantage of.

Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#237

Post by 908B64B197 »

aynyc wrote: post #60

I remember when NY/NJ came out with law preventing employers asking your previous wages (they used to ask for W2!!!). People were saying, oh, employers just won't hire in NY/NJ anymore! Guess what, job market is still hot as the sun and salary range went up across all my job searches and I don't have to deal with bullshit recruiters trying to play with comps.

How does that even work?

Do they actually check that the data is real?

Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#238

Post by 908B64B197 »

xyzelement wrote: post #135
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #55

A competitive market would enable me to sort by salary and benefits and apply for the best job. However companies don't want to compete on salary, and potentialy drive them up - they want maximum leverage. They get more leverage if process is obscure, so that you only agree salary late in the process and for the applicant, pulling out is risky. The market is not really free - its being manipulated by one side. Simila…

> A competitive market would enable me to sort by salary and benefits and apply for the best job. I am always surprised to see comments that make it sound like jobs (or, employees) are fungible commodities that can be bought and sold purely on price. One simple example - two jobs may have the same title (Senior Developer, or whatever) but have totally different expectations of communication skills, leadership skills,…

> One simple example - two jobs may have the same title (Senior Developer, or whatever) but have totally different expectations of communication skills, leadership skills, ability to handle pressure, etc and would pay very differently. So you (and everyone else) would be tempted to apply for the top-paying job but potentially not be qualified.

That's because software engineering suffers from tittle inflation (same way grade inflation works really).

Internally there are several "levels" of Senior Engineers at most companies. But what the levels map to is completely arbitrary. I've seen places where senior really means 20 years of industry experience and others where it's more like 5.

Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#239

Post by reedjosh »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #118
gambiting wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>With housing (in UK) there is no competition on quality because the seller doesn't have to disclose any problems with the house. If it falls of a cliff the minute you sign on the dotted line, it's your problem. I'm in the UK and that's absolutely not true. If you think the owner knew about the problem and purposefully omitted telling you, then you definitely have a court case and any law firm worth their salt will…

In sane countries the seller must comission a survey and provide it to the buyer. The UK system where each buyer comissions a survey is absurd. I do not understand how the mortgage helps you - you are still paying for it, and if the survey uncovers issues, you either take mortgage on a house with problems, or you are out of pocket. If you pull out, and next house you view has issues too, you have to take it because a…

> The UK system where each buyer comissions a survey is absurd.

In the US if a buyer does provide an inspection report to the seller and backs out, then the seller does at least have to disclose any issues found.

Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#240

Post by aynyc »

908B64B197 wrote: post #237
aynyc wrote: post #60

I remember when NY/NJ came out with law preventing employers asking your previous wages (they used to ask for W2!!!). People were saying, oh, employers just won't hire in NY/NJ anymore! Guess what, job market is still hot as the sun and salary range went up across all my job searches and I don't have to deal with bullshit recruiters trying to play with comps.

How does that even work? Do they actually check that the data is real?

How does what work? Asking for previous salary? I've been asked to provide W2s to prove my salary prior to the law. You can probably fake W2s but I just think that's too much work for 99.9% of job applicants.
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