Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#231

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Mon, May 10, 2021, 9:03 PM UTC

Digit-Al wrote: post #209

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I so disagree. You can totally dance to metal. First, there's headbanging and moshing which are absolutely kinds of dance, as is air-guitar playing (a kind of... interpretive dance; I guess?). These may not be what most people think of when they think of dance, but most people also don't think of growling when they think of singing, and yet growling is a form of singing - and in fact one that is connected to traditio…

> I so disagree. You can totally dance to metal. First, there's headbanging and moshing which are absolutely kinds of dance, as is air-guitar playing (a kind of... interpretive dance; I guess?). I completely agree with you here. I used to dance to metal bands frequently when we were allowed to go out and dance.

Well, you got balls. My old friends would have tarred and feathered anyone who dared shake their body to the beat, unless it was from the neck up, or from the waist down.

They were good kids deep down. Don't judge them too harshly.

But I'm a blithering idiot and a senile old fool even. I wonder what will happen when I'm actually old and losing my mind.

Because I forgot the African metal scene:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_heavy_metal

African heavy metal refers to the heavy metal music scene in Africa, particularly in East African countries such as Kenya and Uganda, and Southern African countries including Namibia, Madagascar, Zimbabwe, Angola, Botswana, South Africa, Mozambique, and Zimbabwe.

I spent some time digging through youtube videos of those folks, when I discovered them. Crazy, crazy people who go around in full leather attire in Kenya! I remember interviews with some who had found a very Christian like message of love and brother/sisterhood in metal, gods know where. Or maybe they're in a more pure, young phase of metal, like I was in high school, when I felt a connection with every other metalhead in the entire world (which went away after I actually met a few near at home ha ha).

The fans in that scene I believe go out and dance-dance, not just headbang and mosh, if they do that at all. I vaguely remember a video in a night club with people dancing and a black metal band (see what I did there) playing on stage. I'll see if I can dig it out.

Anyway, yeah, black people can totally dig metal en masse. There is no incompatibility. It's just the culture in some places in the world that stops it, I guess, places where black folk are not the majority. But where they are, they have no reason not to embrace metal.

Edit: also, that supports what I said above, that metal is the true music of the people. Take that, pop.

Edit 2: Actually, the scene I had seen before, with the black-leather clad fans, is the one in Botswana not Kenya. Here's some pics:

https://acidcow.com/pics/55608-the-heavy-metal-subculture-of...

I don't know why looking at those pictures fills me with such joy.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#232

Post by [deleted] » Tue, May 11, 2021, 1:18 AM UTC

harry8 wrote: post #208

hackflip wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half their songs are covers of older blues songs.

Plagiarized. They really did claim to have written "Killing Floor" with a stupid title of "The Lemon Song." Howlin' Wolf had been to london and recorded with Clapton. Hendrix had played a scorching version of it on BBC Radio One. No way they could have missed just that one. Then all the Willie Dixon. It's embarrassing how often Page/Plant claimed to have written classic blues and robbed working folk artists. Lowered…

[deleted]

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#233

Post by antihero » Tue, May 11, 2021, 4:25 PM UTC

sideshowb wrote: post #159

antihero wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, techno parties (and illegal raves) like the ones you talk about are still happening, especially here in Europe. EDM is pure garbage and rife with narcissism.

you must be using a different definition of edm to me. according to the definition I accept, then our rave scene is a small corner of edm which literally is an umbrella term for all electronic dance music. ...i'd be interested to know what term you use for the latter?

EDM is what I ascribe to as the sort of commercial stuff at big commerical festivals like EDC usually in the USA, encompassing US dubstep/brostep, electro house, a lot of trance. Really hyperactive and obvious, no subtlety, all about getting that big fucking drop or that dirty bassline. Tends to be extremely commercial and hugely about superstar DJs and conventionally hot people posting their outfits on Instagram. Like, brooooooo. David Guetta, Aviici, Excision, etc.

Not denying it can't be fun if you're fucked up enough, but it has completely and utterly lost any semblance of being a counterculture or challenging or underground. Not my vibe at all.

I know "EDM" has a literal definition but this is what I mean when I'm talking about it, hope that helps :)

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#234

Post by sideshowb » Tue, May 11, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

antihero wrote: post #233

sideshowb wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you must be using a different definition of edm to me. according to the definition I accept, then our rave scene is a small corner of edm which literally is an umbrella term for all electronic dance music. ...i'd be interested to know what term you use for the latter?

EDM is what I ascribe to as the sort of commercial stuff at big commerical festivals like EDC usually in the USA, encompassing US dubstep/brostep, electro house, a lot of trance. Really hyperactive and obvious, no subtlety, all about getting that big fucking drop or that dirty bassline. Tends to be extremely commercial and hugely about superstar DJs and conventionally hot people posting their outfits on Instagram. Li…

Cool, ok. So what is the term you'd use for the literal definition of e.g. Everything in ishkur's (old) guide?

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#235

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 12, 2021, 1:11 AM UTC

Kye wrote: post #126

Balgair wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if you look at what is happening on Bandcamp or Soundcloud or YouTube or wherever else young people are trying new things you see a tremendous heterogeneity of inspiration and not a lot of concern for where the sound fits in. One way I have heard to mentally categorize things: What is the stereotypical musical instrument of that generation/genre? For jazz and the silent generation it was the saxophone, maybe ot…

The laptop is probably on the way out for a lot of electronic music. I just got a Launchpad X to see what all the hype was about, and it's a lot of fun. The fancier Pro MK3 model can hook right up to a synthesizer. You can already get a fully independent music-making tool in the higher-end Maschine+. I wouldn't be surprised if the inevitable Ableton Push 3 was standalone.

[deleted]

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#236

Post by goodbye_ruth » Wed, May 12, 2021, 1:12 AM UTC

Kye wrote: post #126

Balgair wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if you look at what is happening on Bandcamp or Soundcloud or YouTube or wherever else young people are trying new things you see a tremendous heterogeneity of inspiration and not a lot of concern for where the sound fits in. One way I have heard to mentally categorize things: What is the stereotypical musical instrument of that generation/genre? For jazz and the silent generation it was the saxophone, maybe ot…

The laptop is probably on the way out for a lot of electronic music. I just got a Launchpad X to see what all the hype was about, and it's a lot of fun. The fancier Pro MK3 model can hook right up to a synthesizer. You can already get a fully independent music-making tool in the higher-end Maschine+. I wouldn't be surprised if the inevitable Ableton Push 3 was standalone.

The OP-1 just hit 10 years – many have made albums on that little music box.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#237

Post by 8fGTBjZxBcHq » Wed, May 12, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

naravara wrote: post #230

gonehome wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One hypothesis for why genres matter less is musical abundance and identity as a result of that. I think when you had to buy a record or CD people would consider themselves a “punk rock” person or whatever for any genre and they’d tend to buy and listen to/show their friends that music. With streaming services, and easy access to wide variety there’s not much need for this kind of thing so tastes blend more on the co…

You're not alone on this. I recently saw this video from a guitar teacher who has been doing it since the 90s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emOJdqsEU0o He charts the patterns in how his students engaged with music over his career and comes to the same conclusions you do, shifting from a very highly engaged relationship with bands and acts to a relationship with music as more of an aural thing. Often he finds peopl…

I'm not an insider in the music industry so I can't comment on this teacher's view but that seems... possible sure yeah I can see it.

That's totally separate from the algorithm/genre issue though. The genres have never ever really perfectly matched up with the music but it doesn't matter. If the algorithm perfectly selected more music you like you still wouldn't be more likely to look up the name of the track I don't think.

Anyway that soundtrack is... not jpop per se but it is heavily influenced by it. The format and aesthetics are very jazz-like but the rhythms and harmonizations are very jpop. That might not be the most _useful_ association in this context of finding music that sounds similar, but it is there. And in its way as accurate as calling it jazz. Saying it's "actually" jazz or funk is... that's just not really how this works. It's not wrong to say it's jazz but it's wrong to say anything really is ONLY jazz, and can't also be other things too.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#238

Post by naravara » Thu, May 13, 2021, 1:36 PM UTC

8fGTBjZxBcHq wrote: post #237

naravara wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not alone on this. I recently saw this video from a guitar teacher who has been doing it since the 90s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emOJdqsEU0o He charts the patterns in how his students engaged with music over his career and comes to the same conclusions you do, shifting from a very highly engaged relationship with bands and acts to a relationship with music as more of an aural thing. Often he finds peopl…

I'm not an insider in the music industry so I can't comment on this teacher's view but that seems... possible sure yeah I can see it. That's totally separate from the algorithm/genre issue though. The genres have never ever really perfectly matched up with the music but it doesn't matter. If the algorithm perfectly selected more music you like you still wouldn't be more likely to look up the name of the track I don't…

> If the algorithm perfectly selected more music you like you still wouldn't be more likely to look up the name of the track I don't think.

The causation goes the other way. People are more likely to want to learn about the background behind the music in order to more deeply immerse themselves into a scene where they can be exposed to more music like this. It's why if you go into the record store looking for a recommendation one of the first questions is "What kind of music do you like?" But if nobody ever asks you that question, and you never have to stop and think about it in order to articulate your answer to that question, you wouldn't really know off the top of your head.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#239

Post by Digit-Al » Fri, May 14, 2021, 9:27 PM UTC

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #231

Digit-Al wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I so disagree. You can totally dance to metal. First, there's headbanging and moshing which are absolutely kinds of dance, as is air-guitar playing (a kind of... interpretive dance; I guess?). I completely agree with you here. I used to dance to metal bands frequently when we were allowed to go out and dance.

Well, you got balls. My old friends would have tarred and feathered anyone who dared shake their body to the beat, unless it was from the neck up, or from the waist down. They were good kids deep down. Don't judge them too harshly. But I'm a blithering idiot and a senile old fool even. I wonder what will happen when I'm actually old and losing my mind. Because I forgot the African metal scene: https://en.wikipedia.or…

Thanks for sharing. I had no idea about the African heavy metal scene. Some very cool pictures. It's nice to see people who look a bit more like me enjoying metal.

I am not the biggest heavy metal fan I have to admit. There is some metal I absolutely love and then a lot that I can't stand.

Last year, bored during lockdown, I was reading a Rolling Stone 100 greatest metal albums article and decided I would try to listen to every album in the list and write a short review of what I thought of it. It was a long, and sometimes tough, journey but I managed to make it. I definitely had a better idea of what I do and don't like in metal after that lol

I have been going to blues, rock, and metal gigs around London (plus some festivals) for about 20 years now and it's fairly rare to see anything other than white faces.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#240

Post by Digit-Al » Fri, May 14, 2021, 9:38 PM UTC

ndesaulniers wrote: post #157

dangerbird2 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. If you listen to "hillbilly music" and "blues" from the 20s and 30s, or "rock" and "r&b" from the 50s or 60s, they are musically indistinguishable. The difference almost always solely lies in the race of the musicians or the target audience

I finally got around to listening to Led Zepplin I the other day...a couple of times I thought to myself "man, this sounds like the blues."

Hard rock and heavy metal have their roots in the blues. All of the early bands that defined those genres straddled the line between blues and rock. Led Zeppelin were heavily influenced by the blues; but also if you listen to a band like Deep Purple you will hear the blues influence all over the place. Hendrix, of course, supercharged the blues and it would be difficult to say if he was a blues or rock performer. Even Black Sabbath showed their blues influences in many songs.