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What nobody says about startup moms

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Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#231

Post by RugnirViking »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #153
munificent wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extend your analogy out in time: Three people in their 90s, laying side by side at their deathbeds. One filled their life with friends and experiences, the other did nothing but work, the other raised children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren. Now who is the winner and who the loser?

> Now who is the winner and who the loser? Depends on who's awarding the points. Could be either one of them. Could be all of them. It's not like they were competing, or even playing the same game.

The point of the example is to show that there is no objective measure of success in life

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#232

Post by memonkey »

totorovirus wrote: post #228

Can we also talk about men getting divorced after a startup failure or prolonged 'death valley' period? Startup is always risky for anyone regardless of gender and that is why not many people take the risk. I mean if the job sucks, and you can't afford it then don't do it. There is always an alternative option if you possess the skill set to succeed in startup scene. Applies both to men and women.

I don't know that this post is the place to shift a discussion about a women's experiences to that of men.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#233

Post by aklemm »

bllguo wrote: post #220
aklemm wrote: post #147

Kids are a distraction to intense work. At the same time, becoming a parent is a potential growth experience that is unrivaled and brings value. Healthy kids are a value to society. Non-parents benefit from a society full of healthy children. Parents should be rewarded--or at least equally as compensated--with pay and/or status that tracks with the successes those unburdened with parenting achieve.

Pay/status/compensation from your employer? If that's what you're suggesting, I strongly disagree. That's hardly the role of any company. And it implicitly ties value judgments to your workplace, which is a very sad state of affairs. You don't need corporate recognition to validate your decisions.

Corporate recognition very nearly makes the world go ‘round any more. I’m not really sure what to make if your comments, but I’ll clarify that in terms of status and compensation, I’m thinking more about public policy as a starting point.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#234

Post by xen2xen1 »

toomuchredbull wrote: post #112
ravenstine wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of that comes from parents often expressing all the negatives of parenthood rather than the positives. Even the ones who love spending time with their kids, in my experience, talk more about how much attention the kids need, taking them to school, the diaper changes, the crying, and so on. This isn't to say that all parents are like this; I've met some really passionate parents, and my parents relished…

I was visiting my wife's family in Fiji and it was amazing how much more attention my boy, a toddler got there than in North America. Females of all ages from like 12-100 would dote on him, ask to hold him and talk to him. In North America women treat him like he's diseased whereas my dog gets lots of attention. Weird. There really is a cultural bias against kids here.

I live in the American Midwest. The young women who want kids stay here and (usually) find a man and have kids. The ones who don't want kids badly and or want careers move away much more often. I'm wagering they end up near you. When I had a baby or a toddler they would get oohs and ahs, everywhere I went. That is quite normal here. Your story sounds much like self-selection to me seeing it from the other end.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#235

Post by PragmaticPulp »

toomuchredbull wrote: post #112
ravenstine wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of that comes from parents often expressing all the negatives of parenthood rather than the positives. Even the ones who love spending time with their kids, in my experience, talk more about how much attention the kids need, taking them to school, the diaper changes, the crying, and so on. This isn't to say that all parents are like this; I've met some really passionate parents, and my parents relished…

I was visiting my wife's family in Fiji and it was amazing how much more attention my boy, a toddler got there than in North America. Females of all ages from like 12-100 would dote on him, ask to hold him and talk to him. In North America women treat him like he's diseased whereas my dog gets lots of attention. Weird. There really is a cultural bias against kids here.

> In North America women treat him like he's diseased

Where are you living?

My experience in the US has been basically what you described in Fiji, except not limited to women. Virtually everyone around here is happy and excited to see kids. Babies especially.

Taking my If I was living somewhere where people outwardly loathed young children, I'd probably want to move. What you're describing isn't normal.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#236

Post by atonse »

memonkey wrote: post #232
totorovirus wrote: post #228

Can we also talk about men getting divorced after a startup failure or prolonged 'death valley' period? Startup is always risky for anyone regardless of gender and that is why not many people take the risk. I mean if the job sucks, and you can't afford it then don't do it. There is always an alternative option if you possess the skill set to succeed in startup scene. Applies both to men and women.

I don't know that this post is the place to shift a discussion about a women's experiences to that of men.

The thing is that, as a male startup cofounder with two young kids (my cofounder is a woman with two kids), I’ve found that I’m usually the one fighting to make decisions that allow me to spend more time with my kids, whereas my partner just can’t get enough nights and weekends to keep working. I don’t know if I’m the exception or if more dads just don’t talk about it.

At a population level, this is still likely something women tend to prioritize more than men, and that you usually can’t have it all, but I don’t want to miss my kids growing up and no company is worth missing that, the one exception being all the COVID response work we’ve been doing. That’s been a worthwhile (and temporary) trade-off.

Just wanted to say that there are also fathers struggling with that balance.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#237

Post by Tade0 »

jonny_eh wrote: post #172
mike1o1 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrase "the days are long, but the years are short" has taken on a new meaning for me after having a child.

Some days are quite long indeed.

And nights as well for that matter.

Years of having a cat made it relatively easy for me to adjust to the odd hours, but nothing could have prepared me against the erratic behaviour of an underdeveloped digestive system.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#238

Post by duedl0r »

totorovirus wrote: post #228

Can we also talk about men getting divorced after a startup failure or prolonged 'death valley' period? Startup is always risky for anyone regardless of gender and that is why not many people take the risk. I mean if the job sucks, and you can't afford it then don't do it. There is always an alternative option if you possess the skill set to succeed in startup scene. Applies both to men and women.

lol.. there is always someone trying to divert the discussion with "...but men also get raped!!"

or "black people are racist towards white people, too!"

good job!

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#239

Post by sbuttgereit »

enraged_camel wrote: post #133
hvaoc wrote: post #54

One of the biggest issue with all this is "We lost the community in the pursuit of individuality". It takes a village to raise a child. I grew up in kind a commune. Most of the days kids would be on the streets playing, eat / sleep in their neighbours house. Moms were able to manage house as stay at home moms (hardest yet under-appreciated job) relatively better because of this community care provided for children. E…

>>Cities dwellers lose out on such things. I think this is true only in certain Western countries. I was born and raised in Turkey, and was an apartment dweller until I moved to the US for college. Growing up, I knew all the neighbors in our four or five story apartment complexes, and I knew their kids. So did my parents. And the community aspect was pretty strong — when my parents both had to work late, I just heade…

Your experience of the US is true insofar as I've experienced the larger cities in the US. Once you get out of the cities, into more suburban areas... at least where I grew up in the midwest... that kind of community sense you speak of becomes more prevalent in neighborhoods.

To be fair... I haven't lived in those kinds of places since I was a rather young (now I am rather old)... so things could have changed.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#240

Post by bllguo »

aklemm wrote: post #233
bllguo wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay/status/compensation from your employer? If that's what you're suggesting, I strongly disagree. That's hardly the role of any company. And it implicitly ties value judgments to your workplace, which is a very sad state of affairs. You don't need corporate recognition to validate your decisions.

Corporate recognition very nearly makes the world go ‘round any more. I’m not really sure what to make if your comments, but I’ll clarify that in terms of status and compensation, I’m thinking more about public policy as a starting point.

that's unfortunate, I didn't think I was that unintelligible. In any case we do agree that this is the realm of government. That wasn't very clear to me in your original comment since pay and status are typically conferred by employers in American society.
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