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Lambda School agrees to end deceptive educational financing practices

dfpi.ca.gov

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Re: Lambda School agrees to end deceptive educational financing practices

#231

Post by alasdair_ »

istjohn wrote: post #224
koolba wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument for it is that without it a graduate with a large balance could default on their loan immediately after graduation. The classic example being a surgeon getting hundreds of thousands in loans for medical school, and then skipping out on paying them back when they begin making bank as a doctor.

I'm honestly curious why this isn't a problem in the UK. What are we missing?

When I went to university in the UK for CS (20 years ago), my total student loan debt was close to zero. Indeed, they gave me money to study.

Even now, the cost for something like a medical degree is negligible compared to the USA where $400K for medical school and undergraduate is not unheard of. (A medical degree is an undergraduate degree in the UK)

Re: Lambda School agrees to end deceptive educational financing practices

#232

Post by timavr »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #178
srndsnd wrote: post #6

I'm confused as to why this headline has to be so close to clickbait. I'm not even one to stand up for people like Lambda, I think a lot of bootcamps are shady at best, and actively deceptive at worst (Trilogy). It is definitely important to note that that these loans can be discharged in bankruptcy. But as far as I know, isn't this less stringent than typical student loans, which can't be discharged in bankruptcy? I…

"loans can be discharged in bankruptcy." To me the idea that in a 'free country' today you cannot clear your debts through bancrupcy sounds crazy, it's a practice that belongs in history books along with debtor prisons, bondage, endentured servitude, feudalism, having public holiday 'execution day' and slavery. In the UK we used execute people for vagrancy.

For starters there are two types of loans in the system, federal(92%) and private(8%).

Federal is less of a loan, but more a subsidy that you have to repay at later date if you can. There is no market mechanism involved, government sets the terms and rules. Overall if you have your shit together(push paperwork on time), it is nearly impossible to default on that type of a loan. So for all intense and purposes, those loans are just another hidden tax.

The benefits of this system is arguable, but for America where people hate to pay taxes and government needs to put people through college, this is not a bad option.

But... There are two massive problems in the system, private loans and the way colleges charge for education. First a lot of colleges are free to set fees any way they like, as a result in many cases federal loans are not enough and people are forced to take private loans. The problem with private loans, that they are completely market driven(higher, fees, higher costs, depends on your assets etc), but you can't get rid off them via bankruptcy which is absolutely nuts.

Overall the whole system regardless of country is very unfair and regressive in nature(poor people pay more then rich) and represents an example of broken social contract between government and its citizens. As student debt skyrockets, it also impacts the broader economy and forces people to go into debt to pay day to day expenses.

But maybe it is all by design. It is much easier to control people if they are in debt very early on in live vs debt free.

Re: Lambda School agrees to end deceptive educational financing practices

#233

Post by [deleted] »

40four wrote: post #215

It makes me sad that many of the prominent boot-camps now have such a bad reputation, and seem to be run so poorly, or recklessly. I feel lucky to have enrolled at, now defunct, The Iron Yard at it’s peak in the end of 2016. I owe them everything for teaching me and coaching me into how to break into my new career as a web developer. It was life changing. I can only speak for my particular campus, but I imagine it wa…

[deleted]

Re: Lambda School agrees to end deceptive educational financing practices

#234

Post by lmm »

istjohn wrote: post #224
koolba wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument for it is that without it a graduate with a large balance could default on their loan immediately after graduation. The classic example being a surgeon getting hundreds of thousands in loans for medical school, and then skipping out on paying them back when they begin making bank as a doctor.

I'm honestly curious why this isn't a problem in the UK. What are we missing?

UK student "loans" aren't dischargeable in bankruptcy either - legally they're a tax rather than a loan.

Re: Lambda School agrees to end deceptive educational financing practices

#235

Post by 40four »

dehrmann wrote: post #228
40four wrote: post #215

It makes me sad that many of the prominent boot-camps now have such a bad reputation, and seem to be run so poorly, or recklessly. I feel lucky to have enrolled at, now defunct, The Iron Yard at it’s peak in the end of 2016. I owe them everything for teaching me and coaching me into how to break into my new career as a web developer. It was life changing. I can only speak for my particular campus, but I imagine it wa…

I wonder if there was a gold rush when bootcamps started because there was a pool of motivated people with potential who needed training and help getting into the industry. Once that pool was gone, the only new people entering it are basically high school graduates, so in order to keep operating, bootcamps had to get scammier and lower their standards. I have no evidence of this, but it seems plausible.

Well, my intuition tells me that the ‘pool’ will always be there. I’m not sure it’s dried up, I think it will always be there for one reason or an other.

And it doesn’t seem like the job pool is drying up either. From what I can’t tell there are just as many job opportunities as when I started, and plenty of companies still complaining about not being able to find qualified candidates.

PS: there was a reply I read and was quickly deleted, but made a good point. These sensational companies like Lambda tend to dominate headlines now, but I’m sure there are plenty of smaller more local bootcamps fighting ‘the good fight’ in their areas. If whoever said that deleted comment wants to email me, I’d be interested in learning more about the program you mentioned.

It’s unfortunate these bad headlines taint the overall picture of bootcamps, because I’m sure there are plenty of smaller players around that are doing just as good of a job as The Iron Yard like I described.

And to be fair, there is a perfect example in my area, of a small bootcamp that popped up after TIY went out of business, and they are doing a great job of supplying the same mission and service to our local area.

Re: Lambda School agrees to end deceptive educational financing practices

#236

Post by pkdpic_y9k »

srndsnd wrote: post #6

I'm confused as to why this headline has to be so close to clickbait. I'm not even one to stand up for people like Lambda, I think a lot of bootcamps are shady at best, and actively deceptive at worst (Trilogy). It is definitely important to note that that these loans can be discharged in bankruptcy. But as far as I know, isn't this less stringent than typical student loans, which can't be discharged in bankruptcy? I…

Totally valid but just feel like I have to throw in that I went to a bootcamp, was very suspicious from the earliest stages of consideration but found on the other side that all the friends I made there who attended-even the one that failed out and went to another bootcamp-went from part time jobs making less than 30k a year to legit software engineering positions making 60~120k in less than a year. Im still surprised that the whole thing wasn't a scam. That said it was the most competitive and highest ranked bootcamp then and now in terms of job placement, not sure how places like lambda differ...

Re: Lambda School agrees to end deceptive educational financing practices

#237

Post by nl »

pbreit wrote: post #190
DangitBobby wrote: post #175

Isn't lying to trick people for financial gain to their detriment fraud? > Fraud is an intentionally deceptive action designed to provide the perpetrator with an unlawful gain or to deny a right to a victim. Types of fraud include tax fraud, credit card fraud, wire fraud, securities fraud, and bankruptcy fraud. Fraudulent activity can be carried out by one individual, multiple individuals or a business firm as a whol…

Not clear to me that they were lying. Also not clear they had anything to gain.

> Also not clear they had anything to gain.

The resell the debt to investors[1]. If students think these debts have to be repaid even if they don't then they are more valuable so yes, the school has something to gain.

[1] https://inside.com/campaigns/inside-dev-2020-02-13-21344/sec...

Re: Lambda School agrees to end deceptive educational financing practices

#238

Post by rideontime »

dang wrote: post #129
plorkyeran wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So anyone who put the term "growth hacking" on their resume will now get publicly discredited as being underhanded? Yes? "Growth hacking" has always been basically a euphemism for saying that you're willing to do unethical things for growth.

The term has always made me wince but that is not a fair description.

Would love to see this acknowledged. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26949343

Re: Lambda School agrees to end deceptive educational financing practices

#240

Post by peteretep »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #178
srndsnd wrote: post #6

I'm confused as to why this headline has to be so close to clickbait. I'm not even one to stand up for people like Lambda, I think a lot of bootcamps are shady at best, and actively deceptive at worst (Trilogy). It is definitely important to note that that these loans can be discharged in bankruptcy. But as far as I know, isn't this less stringent than typical student loans, which can't be discharged in bankruptcy? I…

"loans can be discharged in bankruptcy." To me the idea that in a 'free country' today you cannot clear your debts through bancrupcy sounds crazy, it's a practice that belongs in history books along with debtor prisons, bondage, endentured servitude, feudalism, having public holiday 'execution day' and slavery. In the UK we used execute people for vagrancy.

I note this is the case in the UK too tho: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/debt-soluti...
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