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How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

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Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#231

Post by alanfriedman »

eudajmonia wrote: post #217
_petronius wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who grew up in the US, and works as a software engineer in Europe, I can't understand why anyone would ever choose to work as a developer in America. :) I have a very high quality of life here, strong protections as a permanent employee (increasingly less common in other industries in Germany, but not in tech!), a salary that is excellent compared to many of my peers, and comes with a purchasing power that…

I'm from New Zealand, but work in Europe. Recently I started working remotely for an American firm part-time. Those few hours I work for the Americans equates to about 3x the amount of stress from my EU job but with absolutely no protection (at-will clauses). There is such a palpable difference in culture, management style that I am fairly certain I would never work for an American firm again.

Out of curiosity, what were some of the differences in work culture you experienced? I've never worked outside the U.S., so would be interested to hear a different perspective.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#232

Post by light_hue_1 »

jakub_g wrote: post #229
cyminum wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) That almost certainly will not happen with the health insurance as a software engineer. 2) An average of three children die per year in school shootings, giving odds of roughly 1 in 800,000 (hard to tell with such tiny sample sizes). Your child is more likely to be struck by lightning and far more likely to die in a fire or car accident. ( https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/10/11/lockdown-... 3) That is…

I exaggerated in my post, but the general difference is: in US to access high paying jobs, you can either live in city centres where rent is sky high, or suburbs which are very car-centric. This is not compelling to many Europeans. I might not be earning six-digit salary, but I don't share a room with 3 people and don't live in a van (this is probably grotesque but there were many stories like that on HN alone). Abou…

> I exaggerated in my post, but the general difference is: in US to access high paying jobs, you can either live in city centres where rent is sky high, or suburbs which are very car-centric. This is not compelling to many Europeans. I might not be earning six-digit salary, but I don't share a room with 3 people and don't live in a van (this is probably grotesque but there were many stories like that on HN alone).

Rent in SF-NY is high, but it's not that high. It's far less than the extra money that you make. $3k/month will get you a nice apartment just for yourself, no roommates. $4k/month will get you something awesome.

On $150k/year, which is what my students make as their entry-level salaries at Google and friends, you can buy an apartment in almost every metro area in the US so that you don't even need a car. As a mid career developer you can easily afford a house even in SF-NY. I don't even have a driver's license...

> Even if as an employee of FAANG I would get a good health insurance, the way the system works overall for average folk just doesn't make me feel like living in such a system.

That's the thing. The US works for the people in the top 5% and is pretty bad for the people in the bottom 90%.

> And as someone with a "preexisting condition" I'm actually not sure how my case would be treated in case I wanted to apply for a visa.

Visas don't have healthcare checks. You'll be fine.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#233

Post by channel_t »

gigatexal wrote: post #55
sneak wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you worry about getting shot in the US?

Yes. In Portland where I lived we didn’t make enough to live in the nicer parts of town so we lived in the north east near Gresham and crime was a problem out there. Lots of gang violence. My comment was a bit flippant. But it was something I thought about from time to time. Here not at all.

As a fellow east Portlander who stayed in Berlin a couple Summers ago and absolutely fell in love with the place, I really appreciate the story and applaud your successful relocation.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#234

Post by cosmodisk »

BigMajestic wrote: post #149
light_hue_1 wrote: post #140

Any time these guides come up they are simply shocking. I love Europe, I grew up there. I don't understand why anyone would stay as a developer in the EU. Software is simply not valued. Dev salaries are astounding. Senior engineers in the EU make less than entry level undergrads in the US or Canada. 60k Euros is 70k USD. People out of bootcamps with zero experience make more than that in the US. I don't have a single…

And even those 60k Euro is for western Europe. In central-eastern Europe it's around half of it.

Eastern Europe,or at least some parts of it, already seeing tech salaries getting closer to those in western Europe,while cost of living is still fairly reasonable.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#235

Post by cyminum »

jakub_g wrote: post #229
cyminum wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) That almost certainly will not happen with the health insurance as a software engineer. 2) An average of three children die per year in school shootings, giving odds of roughly 1 in 800,000 (hard to tell with such tiny sample sizes). Your child is more likely to be struck by lightning and far more likely to die in a fire or car accident. ( https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/10/11/lockdown-... 3) That is…

I exaggerated in my post, but the general difference is: in US to access high paying jobs, you can either live in city centres where rent is sky high, or suburbs which are very car-centric. This is not compelling to many Europeans. I might not be earning six-digit salary, but I don't share a room with 3 people and don't live in a van (this is probably grotesque but there were many stories like that on HN alone). Abou…

1. Even if you spend another $3000/month on housing (ridiculous and unrealistic), that's just $36000 a year. That's far exceeded by the pay increase in the US.

2. There is a long long long distance between the average case and the worst case that you are describing, especially for engineers. Sharing a room with 3 people or living in a van is very very very far from the average case. Pretty much no engineer needs to do this. If they are, they are doing it to save to the max or doing something very wrong.

3. Same with health insurance. You don't need FAANG for good health insurance. 92% of people have health insurance. Granted, that is of varying quality but being uninsured is far from the average case.

My sense of the US vs. western Europe is that the US is quite a bit worse if you are in the bottom 30%, slightly better in the average case, and much better for the top 20%. And engineers easily make it into the top 20%. So perhaps the peace of mind is worth it since rock bottom is so awful in the US. But there still is a big difference between average and worst case, and the media hyper focuses on the worst case.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#236

Post by cosmodisk »

catdog wrote: post #86
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean you can definitely earn more than 60k in Germany. exactly. I made that as a Junior in my first full-time job in Munich in 2000 already. Then moved on to freelancing and for the next decade never invoiced less than EUR 12K/month (average was actually EUR ~16K). I did a lot of hours and paid a lot of tax but it also got me fast cars, holidays in Italy, Austria or Switzerland (just for the weekends) and a nanny…

Freelancers in Germany also have a problem which is called "Scheinselbstständigkeit". If you do too much work for only one client (there are no clear rules to follow) the public social security system might decide you are to be treated like an employee and your client suddenly has to pay pension insurance and health ensurance for the time you worked for them. Companies fear that because it's a huge chunk of money and…

The same is the UK with so called IR35, no clear rules, grey areas all over the place, absolute shit show for freelancers and contractors.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#237

Post by k__ »

mkurz wrote: post #190
k__ wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I'm self-employed.

I am very interested: What is your hourly/daily/weekly rate? Do you have one long-term client in the US or multiples?

I have one long-term client in the US. I also have other clients around the world, some long-term and some short-term.

Overall, the international clients pay much better than the local ones.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#238

Post by k__ »

tluyben2 wrote: post #170
k__ wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how I do it. Works well.

You are a freelancer right? I always feel the US salaries are more comparable to EU freelancer salaries; I never made less than E100/hr as freelancer for the past 25 years working for EU companies. And often (if the economy is good etc), over 250/hr is doable. Sure you need to buy your own insurance (if you don't want public hospitals or minimum welfare if you get fired) but other than that I don't think it's that fa…

Also, private insurance isn't as crazy as in the US.

I pay half of what I would pay to public health-care and still get better service.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#239

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

geraneum wrote: post #225
AlchemistCamp wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And additionally 2.5k in church tax if you're catholic or lutheran. Woah, what? How does that work and why?

As a Blue Card holder, upon registration in town hall, they ask about your religion and if you don’t want to pay church tax, you have to say you have no religions. Germans also can get out of the church “in an official sense” and stop paying that tax.

I still show up as a parishioner at my old church. I haven't been in over 6 years.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#240

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #140

Any time these guides come up they are simply shocking. I love Europe, I grew up there. I don't understand why anyone would stay as a developer in the EU. Software is simply not valued. Dev salaries are astounding. Senior engineers in the EU make less than entry level undergrads in the US or Canada. 60k Euros is 70k USD. People out of bootcamps with zero experience make more than that in the US. I don't have a single…

You clearly don't work in the midwest...
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