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EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

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Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#231

Post by 908B64B197 »

lostcolony wrote: post #159
leetcrew wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cheating was absolutely rampant when I was in college getting my CS degree. and that was with tests taken in person with the professor in the room! I'm sure students are even more brazen when all assignments are done at home. I think at the very least, all exams ought to be designed as "open book" with a time limit. that at least eliminates the issue of students using unauthorized resources. I'm not sure what can be…

With a CS degree a better solution is make it project based. Even if someone uses code found somewhere, just changing it up to not be obvious, that's not that different than actual industry, AND means they had to understand it at some level. And that's for stuff they -can- search for (such as 'implement a data structure/algorithm').

There's software to detect copy-pasted code or plagiarized (it analyses the syntax tree so renaming the variables and changing indentation won't fool it!).

The best however, is a 1:1 code review with a TA or Prof. Randomly jumping to files, reading the code and asking questions about it. Extremely hard to copy a codebase and learn it well enough you can explain it but really easy to do if you wrote it yourself.

Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#232

Post by iforgotpassword »

RHSeeger wrote: post #91
t0mas88 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, is that software legal to force upon your students? If you tried this in Europe, even with the student explicitly clicking "I consent", you would still be facing pretty serious GDPR penalties because the student had no other option than to accept making their consent invalid.

It would appear that it's already in use in Europe and has win in court. https://gdprhub.eu/index.php?title=Rb._Amsterdam_-_C/13/6846... > The Amsterdam Court of First Instance rejected the request by student representatives and an individual student for a preliminary injunction against the use of digital surveillance software for exams by a public university. The court ruled that measures against covid-19 did not al…

The Netherlands seem to really embrace these platforms. I think for example Chromebook based exams have been big there for quite some years now while it's almost unheard of in Germany.

Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#233

Post by munificent »

ModernMech wrote: post #198
leetcrew wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cheating was absolutely rampant when I was in college getting my CS degree. and that was with tests taken in person with the professor in the room! I'm sure students are even more brazen when all assignments are done at home. I think at the very least, all exams ought to be designed as "open book" with a time limit. that at least eliminates the issue of students using unauthorized resources. I'm not sure what can be…

Since the pandemic began, I've been giving my CS students take home exams, and the results have been so great. They are open everything, including the internet, and the students have 4-5 days to work on the exam, which is a project. I just don't have the ability to police 150-200 students as to whether they are cheating. So I assume they will cheat, and give them a cheating-resistant exam. Instead of asking knowledge…

> The distribution of grades the last exam was normal with a mean of 80%, pretty much in line with what I get during a typical semester.

The distribution is one thing, but grade correlation with other statistics might be more revealing. In particular, how do you know that wealthier students aren't hiring people to take the exam for them?

Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#234

Post by newsclues »

tingol wrote: post #201
c7DJTLrn wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, screw those people for... needing to pay the bills.

Someone working at a high profile software company has problems paying bills? Yeah sure...

Is it possible that that employer is the first one to give a struggling person a job?

Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#235

Post by bostik »

toyg wrote: post #26
jcelerier wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s as if nobody has ever read George Orwell’s 1984 no, they read it and think "how can we do even better"

Orwell is the modern Machiavelli. In about 100 years, people will be wondering if 1984 was satire/criticism or an actual blueprint for effective government in the digital age, in the same way the real aim of Il Principe has been endlessly debated for centuries.

I came up with one of EFF Finland's t-shirt slogans: Orwell was an optimist.

Of course, I was soon outdone. It didn't take long for the adapted version to surface: Orwell was an amateur. Which, I have to admit, is an apt description of our times.

Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#237

Post by bombcar »

Buttons840 wrote: post #215
fxtentacle wrote: post #5

In case you don't know who Proctorio is: (like me) Apparently it's a supervision software that students are forced to install on their private computer and (as expected) it'll do its worst to invade your privacy and flag "suspicious" things, based on which the university might punish you. "Suspicious" here means wearing glasses [3] or looking around in the room or blinking too much [4] or having eye and/or skin color…

Maybe we need an honest to God religion forbidding the use of non-free software, and then we too can play the religion card. Class orders you to install Proctorio? "Sorry, that's against my religion." Fail the class? It's because they required me to sin against my religious beliefs and I would not. Of course, like all religions, not all members will follow the beliefs all the time. At least that's what I tell myself…

It already exists: https://stallman.org/saint.html and if people can get Jedi recognized you should be able to get that recognized (but the courts basically look at do you really act like you believe).

Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#238

Post by bena »

yowlingcat wrote: post #181
bena wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's entirely fair to the candidates. I don't know your stance on Proctorio and I'm not going to air dirty laundry to an effective stranger. And any company or hiring manager who tries to bait me into bad-mouthing a company I've worked at gets a red flag from me.

I'm not sure whether I can take this statement at its word. If that's the response when questioned about working at a company whose entire purpose is purportedly ethical, I would strongly reconsider your position. There are many corporate cultures where this kind of apathy and whatabout-ism would be considered a red flag. That would certainly be the case for any process I've run.

Let me put it this way, asking why you left an employer is fine. Expecting a certain answer for a subjective situation and rejecting an applicant because they didn't give you exactly that answer is not exactly a healthy behavior.

I'm here for a job, not to play weird mind games.

Re: EFF sues Proctorio on behalf of student falsely DMCA'd

#240

Post by areactnativedev »

tailspin2019 wrote: post #81
Nextgrid wrote: post #4

His GoFundMe if you want to contribute: https://www.gofundme.com/f/stand-against-proctorio

I feel like this comment should be at the top - for anyone who feels strongly about this issue and didn’t spot this link further down in his Twitter thread. Have an upvote.

Totally agree
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