The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts • Hacker News Board

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#231

Post by snowwrestler » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

ArnoVW wrote: post #214

Thorentis wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but I think OP is saying that the law should protect intent. Just like with the physical mail system. It is illegal to open a letter addressed to somebody else (though, warrants can override this). But I am fine with the principle. On the other hand, if you stick a huge banner out the front of your house, that information is fair game. Just like posting on your Twitter profile or blog. The intent was never for i…

Not a correction, but I'd like to add a small precision to that because I've seen the same argument used in other contexts. For Twitter and Facebook I tend to agree, as there is an active intent (as you say) of publication. However, I've seen people reason in the same way with respect to licence plate or face recognition: "but the information is public". The fact that technology now allows us to treat licenceplates o…

I agree, the impact of automated scale is definitely worth considering.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#232

Post by 542354234235 » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #125

el_dev_hell wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was a wild read. > Q. Suppose the thief was apparently unarmed but was running away? > A. Call halt twice at the top of your voice, and if he does not halt, fire one warning shot; and if he does not obey this, shoot to hit him. There was no chill during the great depression: > Q. If I hear the command 'Hands Up,' am I justified in obeying this order? > A. No; fall to the ground and start shooting.

No mincing of words. Something like this would never be put into writing today, as far as I understand the USMC: Q. Is there a general plan for meeting a robbery? A. Yes; start shooting and meet developments as they arise thereafter.

> Something like this would never be put into writing today

Because we don’t need rules like that today. America was a very different place than it is now. Those rules were there, not because they were shoot happy maniacs, or because they didn’t care about being “PC”, but because it was much more dangerous back then. It is the same reason that US soldiers stationed in Germany don’t have the same rules of engagement as soldiers in Afghanistan.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#233

Post by CharlieEadwyn » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

jchanimal wrote: post #226

drak0n1c wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People were shocked last summer when federal agents started doing night patrols around a vandalized and firebombed federal courthouse in Portland, deterring and detaining people left and right. Not many are aware of how seriously the federal government takes protecting its properties and duties, and how lethally serious such encounters were not too many decades ago.

Except the US Capitol.

Except for the killing of Ashli Babbitt, who was fatally shot despite being unarmed.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#234

Post by 542354234235 » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #159

elliekelly wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you imagine if USPS ran an email service and all of the legal protections afforded to our mailboxes and the contents of our postal communications applied just the same? The internet would be a completely different place. In a good way, I think.

If the USPS ran email, they would legalize spam and charge by the kilobyte.

Is spam illegal now?

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#235

Post by banannaise » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

cryptoquick wrote: post #136

bscphil wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if there were actual crimes committed by immigrants or gun owners, the crimes themselves should be dealt with Maybe I'm missing your point, but isn't that exactly what the cops in question are supposedly doing? "Immigration cops" investigate illegal immigration. The ATF investigates the unlawful use or sale of firearms and drug trafficking. All of these things are crimes (regardless of whether they should be). So h…

I guess I'm asking a question of crime priority, and whether some crimes are more likely to be punished because a disproportionate amount of policing is put in place towards that sort of crime. If the same resources that were dedicated to the numerous policing agencies in the US were given to a smaller number of more generalized agencies, those agencies would be allowed to prioritize where their time and resources ar…

> those agencies would be allowed to prioritize where their time and resources are best spent protecting the public.

If you trust the police to decide how to distribute their resources, I have some pretty bad news for you.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#236

Post by banannaise » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

tmccrary55 wrote: post #229

hattar wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any with a population and land spread comparable to the US? I imagine that would make more sense in a small country with low diversity of terrain/population/etc.

Plus a national police force is basically illegal and unconstitutional in the US.

Gosh, who's going to notify the feds in Portland of this?

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#237

Post by jayrot » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:15 PM UTC

blitz_skull wrote: post #221

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asides from all that stuff about ordering soldiers to kill American civilians, I'm just boggled that it had a FAQ. How old is the FAQ structure? Wikipedia suggests a history going back to the 1600s, and much further if you stretch the definition to Plato.

American civilians who had made a decided effort to commit a federal felony. Also "ordering soliders to kill American civilians" attempts to color the situation in an unfavorable light, as if the soldiers had alternatives, or the situation didn't fully warrant it. There's no reason that killing armed gangsters wasn't totally justified in this case.

Where's the BG copypasta quote about why soldiers shouldn't be police

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#238

Post by banannaise » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

dataflow wrote: post #96

belval wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fantastic trivia fact, I guess threats to the postal service are a very old problem so it makes sense.

Not merely threats to the postal service itself, but threats via the postal service. I imagine the best to get away with (say) fraud has always been to avoid physical presence, i.e. using mail.

This is the territory where police departments and agencies get themselves into trouble - investigating crimes that aren't really their job to investigate. They technically have jurisdiction over a specific location or process, and that gives them an excuse.

The most obvious parallel is pretext stops - state cops, sometimes local, coming up with an excuse to pull someone over on a highway, in order to check them for warrants or in hopes of discovering contraband they have no reason to suspect exists.

A less obvious example is immigration enforcement fishing for excuses to deport someone.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#239

Post by betwixthewires » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

oblib wrote: post #100

This is a tough issue for a government. We do have crazies out there and we do need to investigate potential dangerous groups and individuals and reel them in before they do something crazy. On my FB feed I have seen friends and friends of friends call for armed revolt many times over the past few years. Most all of them are blowing steam and many are in their 60s or older and couldn't run a block in gym shorts, and…

Out of curiosity. Why do you think that people disliking and even hating their government is necessarily a bad thing? Or is it only expressing that feeling that you have a problem with?

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#240

Post by oblib » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

betwixthewires wrote: post #239

oblib wrote: post #100

This is a tough issue for a government. We do have crazies out there and we do need to investigate potential dangerous groups and individuals and reel them in before they do something crazy. On my FB feed I have seen friends and friends of friends call for armed revolt many times over the past few years. Most all of them are blowing steam and many are in their 60s or older and couldn't run a block in gym shorts, and…

Out of curiosity. Why do you think that people disliking and even hating their government is necessarily a bad thing? Or is it only expressing that feeling that you have a problem with?

I think it's obviously a bad thing when they express their hate by murdering random and innocent victims. When and wherever that line is crossed it is a bad thing. There are no exceptions to that.