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India’s second wave

ft.com

231–240 of 477 posts

Re: India’s second wave

#231
post #52

This is what I feared the first time would be, but somehow the virus spared India. The first time around majority of the population was careful, masked up and stayed indoors. The death was super low. That caused people to get over confident, people believed that covid is not harmful in the country and they fully ignored it. Now there is an Indian variant of the virus which apparently and the infection rates and death…

I wonder if epidemiologists have confidence taken in account in their modesls. Probably but still.. it seems such a natural social bounce after extreme fear then lower rates..

Re: India’s second wave

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't get is why we call ourselves democracies and speak as "lockdowns hurt poor people very badly" In a representative democracy, you wouldn't lock down and force people to starve - you would lock down and provide income/food/capabilities for people to live regardless of their social/economic status. locking down isn't why poor people hurt, locking down and doing nothing to feed them does. It's like this pand…

Democracy is the system of elected representatives. You can elect a government that is completely opposed to welfare programs. India has some of the hardest working people in the world, and it's a shame the way many have been treated by government programs. Government handouts have created a culture in which many of the poor are at the mercy of corrupt bureaucrats just to get by. "What's that you say? Your rice allot…

I was born poor. One american idea that does resonate with me after coming to USA is that a lot of poor people do not see themselves as poor. While their struggles are real they do not see themselves as losers but rather see themselves as strugglers who will eventually make it some day. They make life better for themselves and others. That was the case with my family. We lived in a house whose floor was basically painted with cowdung, roof leaked, we could not afford meat and we borrowed newspapers from others to read. Yet, not once we would call ourselves poor and demand that someone else take care of us. It would be insulting for our pride.

A lot of well off people in India and USA automatically think of poor people as losers or without agency. They then propose that government must help them. Guess what, other than a small fraction of poor people most DO NOT want that help. They would rather prefer to do what they want to do. Poor people do not want your food, clothing and shelter, they have their own desires. We can not possibly know what they are.

India is an extremely social country and lockdowns have much bigger costs for people. If people are angry and fed up and willing to risk their lives, I can understand. I do not think assurance of food or money per month will keep them indoors.

What we need is some humility to recognize that just because someone else has less money than we do, that does not reduce their self worth or gives us the right to know "what they need".

PS. Shortage of food was not a problem in India during last lockdown it is not a problem today either. Food Corporation of India has a record stockpile of rice right now.

Re: India’s second wave

#233
post #195

Lock down is needed in India for lot of the Morons in our country who were taking things so lightly after the first wave we all deserve the lock down so we can learn a hard lesson, and stupid people die of covid19. The second wave is all because of the central & State Govt and people's foolishness & ignorance. Unfortunately its because of our stupidity its the people of the lower income class have to suffer the most,…

I expressed a similar opinion while discussing with my friends. Indians don't get a nuanced message. Given the sheer size of Indian (mostly uncivilized) population and its vast geography it's close to impossible to have a middle ground measure. The message from the top must be crystal clear and enforced with iron hammer. If the message/measure contains even an iota of nuance it'll get lost among 1.3B people. If that's not enough we have information pathways (Twitter/FB/WA) that are particularly optimized to spread misinformation at the speed of light.

Even when it was 100% evident that the second wave was fully on politicians conducted campaigning rallies, allowed religious gathering of millions, movie halls were running at 100% and so on. The time to contain was then; now it's all about damange control and pray.

Re: India’s second wave

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a certain point you run out of money. The US can print trillions of dollars in an emergency as a world reserve currency. Most countries cannot do this. The idea that India could just pay 1.4 billion people not to work for a year doesn't seem like a realistic proposal.

You can't print a chicken. Money is only the intermediary.

There are tons of chicken farmers in the world who love to exchange their chickens for the US dollars. However, the same farmers don't want to sell their chickens for Zimbabwian dollars. USD has the world reserve currency status, that's why MMT folks want to print money to spend on fiscal policy. Third world countries don't have this luxury.

Re: India’s second wave

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't get is why we call ourselves democracies and speak as "lockdowns hurt poor people very badly" In a representative democracy, you wouldn't lock down and force people to starve - you would lock down and provide income/food/capabilities for people to live regardless of their social/economic status. locking down isn't why poor people hurt, locking down and doing nothing to feed them does. It's like this pand…

At a certain point you run out of money. The US can print trillions of dollars in an emergency as a world reserve currency. Most countries cannot do this. The idea that India could just pay 1.4 billion people not to work for a year doesn't seem like a realistic proposal.

Not with that attitude it's not.

It's not that they can't afford it - it's that they're unwilling to actually leverage the wealth of their country to do it. I seriously don't understand the thinking that resources are still so scarce that an entire country like India somehow can't afford to meet the basic needs of its people (let alone the US). If the resources exist you figure out how to get them to the people that need them. Not doing this is how you get unrest, a massive rise in crime and eventually coups, wars, etc. Democracy and capitalism are not givens - they are very much still experiments that can and do fail.

Re: India’s second wave

#236

https://archive.is/VYm6A

[flagged]

If there's a workaround, it's ok. Users usually post workarounds in the thread.

This is in the FAQ at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html and there's more explanation here:

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989

Re: India’s second wave

#237
post #195

Lock down is needed in India for lot of the Morons in our country who were taking things so lightly after the first wave we all deserve the lock down so we can learn a hard lesson, and stupid people die of covid19. The second wave is all because of the central & State Govt and people's foolishness & ignorance. Unfortunately its because of our stupidity its the people of the lower income class have to suffer the most,…

I'm sure you're well-intentioned, but please don't call names in comments here, no matter how strongly you feel about a topic. It degrades discussion, and is against the site rules for that reason: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: India’s second wave

#238

The fact that the official numbers are through the roof tell you how bad the unofficial (and real) numbers are. In the past week, there have been reports from several cities where the number of Covid deaths are measured in single digits - yet crematoriums are so full that people have started cremating their dead ones on sidewalks.

I am surprised that there is no skepticism here about the cremation numbers.

1. Crematoriums usually have enough capacity to deal with average death rates. Anything above that and it starts to look horrific.

2. What is the definition of "covid protocol" for cremation? Does it mean the patient had covid? I don't see this clearly stated any where.

3. There might be a delay between the two numbers with crematorium numbers being more current. This also contributes to the "10x".

The numbers are bad enough even without unscientific exaggerations.

I am open-minded about this FT article's claims being accurate, but there

Re: India’s second wave

#239
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t the opposition parties, independent media, foreign watchdogs raise the alarm if that was the case (prior to the current strain)? This would’ve been a golden opportunity to discredit the ruling government.

Clearly you know nothing about the Indian media and how it is suppressed by the government. Indian media is NOT FREE to report.

Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. It leads to flamewars, which are tedious and nasty.

Instead, you can add solid information in a neutral way; or it's always ok not to post.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: it looks like you've done this repeatedly in recent months. That's not cool; please don't—regardless of how right you are, or feel you are, on the underlying issues.

Re: India’s second wave

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't get is why we call ourselves democracies and speak as "lockdowns hurt poor people very badly" In a representative democracy, you wouldn't lock down and force people to starve - you would lock down and provide income/food/capabilities for people to live regardless of their social/economic status. locking down isn't why poor people hurt, locking down and doing nothing to feed them does. It's like this pand…

> you would lock down and provide income/food/capabilities for people to live regardless of their social/economic status. You are mistaking democracy with other virtues. income/food/capabilities do not come from thin air, it is eventually generated by people and under lockdowns when most economy is at a standstill this is incredibly difficult. So even the "redistribution" does not work that well. India is also a far…

I think it's safe to assume if you're missing anything from the base of Maslow's hierarchy then those things are probably included in what you immediately need, let alone what you want.
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