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Hire me and pay what you want, just give me interesting work

truzzi.me

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Re: Hire me and pay what you want, just give me interesting work

#231

Post by throwawayboise »

cletus wrote: post #160

So there are two issues with this: 1. If I were looking to hire someone and read this, I would immediately be turned off. Why? Because part of being an engineer (or any employee really) is doing a bunch of stuff people don't enjoy doing. This includes: - Writing documentation - Writing tests - Fixing bugs - Talking to partners about a change/launch - Talking to lawyers - etc So I would be wondering: if you're signali…

Exactly. I hire you (and pay you) to do what I need to be done, not what you want to do. Of course we both look for a situation where there is a lot of overlap in these things, because that means you are a good match for the job I am offering. But it will never be 100%.

Re: Hire me and pay what you want, just give me interesting work

#232

Post by thebean11 »

groby_b wrote: post #216
cletus wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The specific list of things doesn't matter. It'll vary from person to person and project to project. The point is, there'll always be something. My point is that if you're signaling from the outset that you want to cherrypick those things then I, as your employer, don't actually know what you will or won't do. I don't know if you'll follow up on tricky-to-reproduce bugs (as an example) because that's "boring". That's…

If you as an employer are not able to deal with the fact that different people have different preferences, you either are running a very small shop (2-4 people) which just makes that impossible, or you're probably not an employer that will attract people who aren't deliberately choosing a "cog in the machine" path. I want to be very clear: There's nothing wrong with that path. There's nothing wrong with wanting to em…

This only makes sense if in aggregate preferences are proportional the amount of work in each area, which is not the case (documentation is the obvious counterexample)

Re: Hire me and pay what you want, just give me interesting work

#233

Post by frontiersummit »

blentz wrote: post #55

I’ve been on the receiving end of similar requests before. “I’ll work for free or nothing if you let me do what I love under the umbrella of your organization because I love it so much.” I did one or two agreements like this and then stopped altogether. The individual would start their work, others would start to depend on its existence and the individual would leave in a matter or weeks or months because something e…

The obvious elephant in the room is how can someone afford food and rent while working on $1 or whatever. If I was a hiring manager I would assume one of 3 things: 1) He is independently wealthy, 2) He lives in a van, or 3) he really expects $50/hour and this is some sort of bait-and-switch strategy.

Re: Hire me and pay what you want, just give me interesting work

#234

Post by slingnow »

groby_b wrote: post #216
cletus wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The specific list of things doesn't matter. It'll vary from person to person and project to project. The point is, there'll always be something. My point is that if you're signaling from the outset that you want to cherrypick those things then I, as your employer, don't actually know what you will or won't do. I don't know if you'll follow up on tricky-to-reproduce bugs (as an example) because that's "boring". That's…

If you as an employer are not able to deal with the fact that different people have different preferences, you either are running a very small shop (2-4 people) which just makes that impossible, or you're probably not an employer that will attract people who aren't deliberately choosing a "cog in the machine" path. I want to be very clear: There's nothing wrong with that path. There's nothing wrong with wanting to em…

I think you're taking a very black and white view of this.

For example, ANY shop, of ANY size, is going to have issues with tricky-but-hard-to-reproduce bugs. The parent comment is highlighting the fact that they can't be sure if this sort of prima donna is going to be willing to run that issue to ground, or if they'll put up a stink about it being "boring".

Additionally, even if this person were working for free, there's a definite cost to foisting difficult bugs on your teammates.

Do you honestly believe only "cogs in a machine" should be / would be interested in fixing that sort of issue?

Re: Hire me and pay what you want, just give me interesting work

#235

Post by quijoteuniv »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #209
dkyc wrote: post #195

It's almost funny how this is the polar opposite of what you often want when hiring. You're hiring to add manpower to tackle the kind of unexciting tasks that you don't naturally find people drawn towards from your existing team (and then, people's responsibilities expand, or they turn 'boring' work into interesting work by redefining the problem or attacking it on a deeper level). When you have a growing business, m…

I'd put it a bit differently than the OP - for me interesting and meaningful work means that it's actually benefiting society in some way. That would mean that even the 'boring' aspects would have some kind of meaning ("we're trying to cure X" or "We're working to help solve global warming"). Too much work now is just trying to sell stuff to other people, get people to click links, get people riled up so that they're…

Definetely. Making a rich guy get richer is boring. Helping the planet be a better place sounds interesting.

Re: Hire me and pay what you want, just give me interesting work

#236

Post by sturgeongeneral »

lnsru wrote: post #13

I have nice boring job. Few years ago I was upset with the boring part. But with kids and mortgage I don’t really care anymore. I am very happy to be paid more than a manager in a small company being only individual contributor in big Corp. I also have approval to sell my hardware from big Corp. So I can explore new things with commercial potential without a fear. Life is good.

I may be conflating 'boring' with 'rote', but how do you think the nature of your work may affect your job security? This is something I worry about sometimes, because I find that the work I'm doing could eventually be de-valued or automated. Still, I very much appreciate your position as I'm in a similar boat.

Re: Hire me and pay what you want, just give me interesting work

#237

Post by bumby »

groby_b wrote: post #216
cletus wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The specific list of things doesn't matter. It'll vary from person to person and project to project. The point is, there'll always be something. My point is that if you're signaling from the outset that you want to cherrypick those things then I, as your employer, don't actually know what you will or won't do. I don't know if you'll follow up on tricky-to-reproduce bugs (as an example) because that's "boring". That's…

If you as an employer are not able to deal with the fact that different people have different preferences, you either are running a very small shop (2-4 people) which just makes that impossible, or you're probably not an employer that will attract people who aren't deliberately choosing a "cog in the machine" path. I want to be very clear: There's nothing wrong with that path. There's nothing wrong with wanting to em…

I didn’t downvote but what I suspect the OP is saying is “I want to hire someone who will get done what needs to get done whenever it needs to be done, not just when it aligns with what they want to do.”

Having just re-read Daniel Goleman’s book on emotional intelligence recently, one important aspect to high EQ individuals is having the ability to motivate themselves to do work that may be necessary, but not necessarily glamorous or fun.

Re: Hire me and pay what you want, just give me interesting work

#238

Post by PascLeRasc »

ftruzzi wrote: post #49
moritonal wrote: post #7

So Francesco says they refuse to do technical interviews and says their CV and Github are proof enough. The CV shows experience as a freelance engineer at Apple for a bit, then an engineer for Samsung which they were made redundant from. Their GitHub is 3 projects, a python script, a breakout board and then a beta libary. They argue that's fine though because they'd work for £1/hr, but the real cost of an upfront hir…

I completely understand your point of view and I would think the same if I were you, but that's probably the kind of work I'm trying to avoid. I only have one life, and I just don't want to be paid to "stay around and do the boring bits", or at least not full-time and in an office. Just as an example, having to stay in the office if there's nothing else to do for the day was absolutely soul-crushing for me. I might b…

I think you'd really like Jason Fried's writing. You can find some short posts [here](https://m.signalvnoise.com/author/jason-fried/), but his book It doesn't have to be crazy at work is really great too.

Re: Hire me and pay what you want, just give me interesting work

#239

Post by mywittyname »

Y_Y wrote: post #225
jedberg wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. None of those people account for the time value of money. If I could get an interest only mortgage I would (where I literally pay to rent the money). There are so many better things I can do with a few hundred thousand dollars now. If you have the money to pay off your mortgage, why not buy a second house with it and rent that out? Let someone pay your mortgage while you get the appreciation? Or invest…

I think this statement is a bit strong. The price/rent ratio varies greatly between places and times. Around here it's between 30 and 40 years, that makes it very difficult to make money by borrowing to buy a place to rent out.

In such markets, the bulk of the ROI is not the rent checks, but tax savings and appreciation of the underlying asset.

Real estate looks a lot like the stock market anymore. People value companies on metrics beyond simple revenue, profits, and dividends. With RE, investors understand that wage growth in a region flows into housing at a compounding rate due to leverage and are capitalizing on it.

So long as Seattle or LA have companies that pay above average wages to enough employees, housing prices in those regions should continue to grow at a a rate somewhat relative to differences in wages. What constitutes "enough employees" seems to be relative to how constrained housing growth is. In LA, housing prices are driven by probably the top 20-30% of earners.

Re: Hire me and pay what you want, just give me interesting work

#240

Post by slingnow »

Could you imagine a hiring a general contractor for your home renovation business with this sort of attitude? This person would be an instant liability. I can't imagine any instance where I would want them doing free work for me, bouncing from one half finished task to the next when it became boring for them.

Hell, I wouldn't even let them wander around my jobsite for free.

The entitlement in this profession is sometimes truly astounding.

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