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My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

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Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#231
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, although I never said to open the border, nor hinted at any specific solutions. More so, I asked for you to see the situation in a different light. I think its really easy for you (or others) to say "country's full, you'll have to get in line like everyone else", while ignoring the circumstances of real people like the author of the article, and in essence, ignoring your own history and how you got to where yo…

> Right, although I never said to open the border, nor hinted at any specific solutions. Exactly, you seem to prefer to philosophize and invoke moral criticism than to actually discuss practical solutions. > I think its really easy for you (or others) to say "country's full, you'll have to get in line like everyone else" I started this thread by arguing that we should have compassion for people who run into headaches…

Well, there might just be a difference in the way we see things. Its comments like these that bug me:

I started this thread by arguing that people brought here as children deserve more leniency.

Obviously, we don't hold children to the same standard as adults. However, the fact that its not an implicit belief (to give a child benefit of the doubt) and has to be explicitly stated by you shows (to me) a form of malice, spite, arrogance, and a complex of superiority. Here's why: you already believe that this person is a criminal, that all illegal immigrants are criminals and should be treated as such. That even though he came here as a kid, that this is all he knows and lives, we should be lenient when we consider kicking him out. I see selfish ration and logic in your words, but I see no compassion or sensibility for others.

A Mexican is no more entitled to come and work in the USA without a visa than I'm entitled to go and work in Mexico without a visa.

You'll never work in Mexico because nobody will pay you a livable wage, thats the difference. It sounds the equivalent of someone saying: "I don't step through your garbage dump looking for food, so you don't step through my wine vineyard. That's called fairness."

The only "right and opportunity" I am invoking is the right to live in the community where I was born, a right and opportunity that most of the world enjoys.

Another folly in your history books. See: slavery, colonialism, trade blocs, etc. Unfortunately for some, opportunity has literally been taken away and societies forever changed. By "most of the world enjoys", you probably mean the privileged elite. You know, the people who account for something like 90% of the worlds wealth in 10% of the population.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#232
In this case, the minimum patch to fix his situation (and that of those very similar to him) is probably to remove the 10 year ban requirement. Let him leave, reapply immediately as an O-1, etc., without prejudice, based on having come here as a minor, and/or having graduated from a US university.

While I'd like to see comprehensive immigration reform, I am always afraid of the perfect being the enemy of the good. There should be immediate incremental fixes to solve as many things as possible, vs. blocking everything on one perfect fix (which probably doesn't exist).

I think it's fairly widely accepted that the cost/benefit ratio of bringing in educated entrepreneurs freely is far better than unrestricted immigration. There may be non-economic reasons to support family reunification, asylum, or diversity, but the economic argument for letting entrepreneurs relocate to the US freely is slam-dunk; the argument for highly skilled workers being fast tracked to green cards and citizenship is comparatively strong too.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did not downvote, but absolutely disagree. Ethnic nationalism has a bad track record, to put it mildly.

> Ethnic nationalism has a bad track record Pre 1940s Europe is a transnational jumble of overlapping ethnic groups. Result: war after war after war. Post 40s and 50s after millions of people relocate to their linguistic and ethnic homelands and coalesce into new nations carved out of empires: lasting peace. Last major war was in former Yugoslavia, which failed to get with the ethnic nationalist program. Hell, even B…

Would you say that Jews and Protestant Brits are of different ethnic nationalities?

(Any answer other than "yes" is a cop-out or word-play.)

Wouldn't your statement then be implying that the US would be better off without a large part of its congress, its best teachers, and scientists?

In the long term - we are all heat decay. In the short term, all we need is a set of common values we agree on.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See that crew of criminal alien hispanic landscapers? Are you being serious or are you having a bad day? I would be scared to be around someone like you who makes such sweeping generalizations.

Are you really this naive about the landscaping business in much of the country? In a great many cases you can reliably assume people are here illegally.

I really hope that you have citations for that. Not saying that you're correct or incorrect (I have not personally gone out of my way to find landscapers and determine whether they're legal residents or not, so I obviously have no data points to contribute), but in the absence of some sources - or at the very least a few anecdotes! - it sounds like you're making sweeping generalizations about groups of people, possibly based on their appearance.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, here we have a philosophical issue: tribe or meritocracy. Considering the historically horrible results with tribalism, meritocracy is best. Which means, open the borders. If some lazy spoiled Americans lose their jobs to better skilled immigrants, all the better. That's what this country is about.

The USA has an orderly and, from what I understand from my immigrant friends and coworkers, not too difficult immigration process already. The meritocracy is here already. The article's author decided to cheat the system and be a criminal.

I'm an American who has contacts with a group of people who are illegal aliens. We have been trying to go the correct route for years. Trust me when I say it is a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

The entire reason we have a problem is because there isn't a good way to "do things legally".

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#236

I'm in the same boat. It's been difficult. I cannot express how grateful I am to Jose Vargas for writing this story. I was brought here as a kid 13 years ago. I'm 24 now. I also graduated from a "top" university -- like that matters. I guess my parents weren't smart enough to get a fake social security card for me back then, I wish they were. I've also been fighting for the Dream Act for what feels like an eternity.…

I was in the same boat too. Reading this article brought back a lot of painful memories. Like the author, I only found out years after I assimilated. For a while, I couldn't even look at the flag or say the pledge without feeling depressed.

Thankfully one of my divorced parents married a citizen close to when I started high school. Eventually I was eligible to apply for citizenship sometime late in college.

I still remember the citizenship 'test' I had to take. It consisted of telling the tester: the colors of flag, reading a sentence that said George Washington was the 1st US president, and telling her who the current president was. Ironically I had passed an AP US history course sometime ago with flying colors.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, here we have a philosophical issue: tribe or meritocracy. Considering the historically horrible results with tribalism, meritocracy is best. Which means, open the borders. If some lazy spoiled Americans lose their jobs to better skilled immigrants, all the better. That's what this country is about.

The USA has an orderly and, from what I understand from my immigrant friends and coworkers, not too difficult immigration process already. The meritocracy is here already. The article's author decided to cheat the system and be a criminal.

I had to wait over 8 years to get my citizenship and wade through tons of bureaucracy and paperwork. In my experience it was anything but easy. It took a letter to the governor of my state, asking for help so that I can vote for him; to get things moving. Suddenly everything magically fell into place within two weeks of writing that letter.

It's probably only 'easy' for Canadians.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#238
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spouse of first-generation immigrant to the United States here. And back in the 1990s I used to be an immigration lawyer for a small law firm on the west coast. Yes, the personal story of Jose Antonio Vargas is rough on him personally, but a better basis for setting the policy of immigration in the United States would be the stories of the many people who patiently wait in line to be admitted to the United States thr…

AFAIK, most (66%) legal immigration into the United States is currently due to family reunification reasons, rather than for skilled employees, humanitarian reasons, or diversity [1]. Whether or not this is economically rational or beneficial to America or other Americans can be argued. [1] Second paragraph of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_State...

To be fair, that could be because it's almost always the quickest and easiest way to immigrate.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#239
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right, although I never said to open the border, nor hinted at any specific solutions. Exactly, you seem to prefer to philosophize and invoke moral criticism than to actually discuss practical solutions. > I think its really easy for you (or others) to say "country's full, you'll have to get in line like everyone else" I started this thread by arguing that we should have compassion for people who run into headaches…

Well, there might just be a difference in the way we see things. Its comments like these that bug me: I started this thread by arguing that people brought here as children deserve more leniency. Obviously, we don't hold children to the same standard as adults. However, the fact that its not an implicit belief (to give a child benefit of the doubt) and has to be explicitly stated by you shows (to me) a form of malice,…

Hey Coryl, I'm enjoying this discussion between you two and I think you both make excellent points and I'm learning from the discussion. But this out of bounds -

> has to be explicitly stated by you shows (to me) a form of malice, spite, arrogance, and a complex of superiority.

You really ought not personally insult the guy you're discussing with... it doesn't help the discussion at all. Really uncalled for, haberman is disagreeing with you but he's being civil. If you don't like his points, argue without the insults.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#240

I have no beef with this guy who was basically forced into breaking the law before he could have responsibility for his actions. But overall I just feel that the compassion about immigration is misplaced. I don't understand why all the pro-immigration people say "look at these poor undocumented immigrants -- we should make life better for them." I think the people we should have compassion for are the people who are…

Spouse of first-generation immigrant to the United States here. And back in the 1990s I used to be an immigration lawyer for a small law firm on the west coast. Yes, the personal story of Jose Antonio Vargas is rough on him personally, but a better basis for setting the policy of immigration in the United States would be the stories of the many people who patiently wait in line to be admitted to the United States thr…

In Europe it's a lot easier to immigrate in general. Especially as an EU citizen. And if your country is also a member of the Schengen space, you can just move around using only your ID.

My uncle immigrated in Spain for instance; entered and worked illegally at first (since a Schengen visa was required of him, and he could find illegal work more easilly anyway), but forward 15 years later, and now he has full citizenship and a perfectly legal driver's license. And he has had a legal job for 10 years already.

For me I have the following difficulty - you can't obtain a visa for work in the US if you don't have a college degree in the domain you want to work in. And then it's extremely difficult to be a startup founder that way, since with that kind of visa you can only work as an employee and have a sponsor. Unless you can obtain a Visa at the lottery or for extraordinary merits.

This is absolutely insane - since I just got out and bought a college degree in CS, waited 3 years to get it of course, but I got it, and now I can get an US Visa.

But then again, why should I? Why wouldn't I go work in Zurich or in London or in Berlin, or just stay where I am, since obviously the US doesn't want me?

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