What about the thing that is already named OpenSearch?
There is also https://www.opensearchserver.com/ which is the first result when your search "opensearch docker".
OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
231–240 of 438 posts
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In fact, Amazon contributes very little to open source in general, considering how much they take from it I don’t think this is a fact. Amazon seems to contribute pretty significantly according to the pages [0,1] they put out that describes their contributions. Not to mention their membership in OSS foundations like Linux Foundation. [2] You have the caveat about in relation to benefit they gain, but that’s pretty…
The absolute claim, aside from being at home in a rant on HN, comes from a cursory glance at https://github.com/amzn , weighted by contributors and popularity, and compared to companies of similar size. Google, Microsoft and Facebook all build and maintain multiple open source projects that are hugely popular with people who use them outside of the company sandboxes. For example, people benefit from React without Fac…
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#233I wonder if ES had originally been AGPL licensed would that have helped them? If Amazon adapts AGPL code to integrate it with their own infra=structure doesn't that in fact mean that all of Amazons' software-based infra-structure would become AGPL as well, and thus easily reproduced by Google Cloud, MS Cloud, Oracle Cloud etc.? Or even inhouse? In other words wouldn't it mean it would be easy to replicate the Amazon Cloud-business (on a smaller scale)?
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
Uhmmm I’m pretty sure David vs Goliath is talking about scale between competition. Saying that $11B is Goliath just because you’re sitting at $1M doesn’t mean they’re not in a crazy mismatched fight against a $2T company. In the same way you could be in a David vs Goliath situation yourself if you with $1M in wealth tried to sue someone with $25K of wealth. Everything is relative. Doesn’t mean it’s not a crazy unfair…
I don't root for David because he's smaller. I root for him because he's small.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
The absolute claim, aside from being at home in a rant on HN, comes from a cursory glance at https://github.com/amzn , weighted by contributors and popularity, and compared to companies of similar size. Google, Microsoft and Facebook all build and maintain multiple open source projects that are hugely popular with people who use them outside of the company sandboxes. For example, people benefit from React without Fac…
When I think of Google I think of Go, Angular, protobuf, Bazel, Dart, Flutter, Android, Chromium, Kubernetes, Tensorflow, etc. When I think of MS I think of C#, TypeScript, VSCode, .NET When I think of Facebook I think of React, Flux, Jest, PyTorch, GraphQL, Haxl When I think of Apple I think of Swift, WebKit When I think of Amazon...I can't really think of anything
Facebook: Relay, Cassandra, React Native, RocksDB, Presto, Reason, btrfs, osquery.
Apple made significant contributions to LLVM and Clang
Hell IBM has more open source contributions (many through the Apache foundation and standards committees) than Amazon, which is saying something.
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quite a few companies have proprietary products but have learned to make money selling services. One of them even has a 200B market cap and is called Oracle. Nobody needs to feel sorry for anyone.
Right. But the question here is not about companies value in the market. Why changing the subject? This should be about the ethics behind Amazon's aggressive actions against OSS and its effect on the OSS industry.
The value in the market is the subject of the parent thread. Anyways, like I said, Elastic could've made money with a proprietary product but they chose OSS instead (and used Apache Lucene to build on).
AWS is just offering customers what they want and there are many other companies doing the same thing (IBM's Compose, Aiven, Instaclustr, etc). How is this against OSS? This is the OSS industry operating as intended.
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
One thing which surprised me: Elastic has a market capitalization of ~$11B. I think that changes some of the more floaty ethical concerns. This is not a David vs Goliath situation. This is Goliath vs Super-Goliath. At this point, I'm much less interested in the drama of which mega-corp is screwing over the other. I'm more interested in: how does it affect me? When the titans are done trampling over the rest of us, wh…
Uhmmm I’m pretty sure David vs Goliath is talking about scale between competition. Saying that $11B is Goliath just because you’re sitting at $1M doesn’t mean they’re not in a crazy mismatched fight against a $2T company. In the same way you could be in a David vs Goliath situation yourself if you with $1M in wealth tried to sue someone with $25K of wealth. Everything is relative. Doesn’t mean it’s not a crazy unfair…
To be realistic and fair I don't believe part of Amazon that is doing fork of Elasticsearch is $2T, they have other stuff to do.
Just like the guy that is $1M worth is not going to blow all of his money just to squash some guy. He probably has more powerful friends and maybe some connections but I don't see dumping $0.5m on lawyers just because he can take piece of cake from the other guy that will make him $10k a year.
Imagine head of the department storming into Jeff Bezos office telling that he needs 20% of all Amazon worth to squash Elastic, that would be funny. Quick calc with 20% I assume would be $20B which would be only x2 of Elastic, so I don't see something like that happening.
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#238It's hard for me to know whether to feel bad for ES in this case. Did they bring it on themselves? Is Amazon too big and a bully? From my perspective, Amazon has made most of its profit price gouging consumers on bandwidth after vendor locking them into their ecosystem, where they bootstrap new services by wrapping open source software with some provisioning scripts, management dashboards and cookie-cutter API / cons…
> they can invest more resources into developing it than the original team ever could. I know this is a popular narrative, but as someone who works on AWS, I think you would be shocked by how small the individual dev teams are that build and maintain the services that everyone uses. I'm not going to downplay the network effects involved. Of course AWS has a tremendous advantage in being able to standardize the custom…
In the world of OSS, code speaks. A small team may not help the cause of Open Search. This article nails how code influences leadership in an OSS project: http://hypercritical.co/2013/04/12/code-hard-or-go-home
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it really price gouging for bandwidth? Or is bandwidth just really expensive in general? I honestly don't know. I would assume if it was actually much cheaper one of the cloud's would undercut the other to get customers.
It really is price gouging - bandwidth is actually cheap. A couple of comparisons: Oracle Cloud give you 10TB of bandwidth for free, with overage charged at around €7.5/TB. You can rent a VPS from the likes of Hetzner, and they will throw in 2-20TB of bandwidth for free, with overage charged at something like €1/TB - AWS charge an eye-watering €125 for each TB! I think the reason the big 3 (AWS, Azure, GCP) still cha…
> I think the reason the big 3 (AWS, Azure, GCP) still charge such huge amounts is that they profit so greatly from it, and there is more than enough business to go round
Or that their networking does vastly more and is of better quality? Hetzner can't provide you with everything around a VPC that AWS do. Just a tiny example - peering VPCs across regions, which is free.
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah the original OpenSearch project is a different enough domain that I think confusion will be minimal. We have talked to the maintainer and he is supportive. We have also posted disambiguation in case anyone does get confused. https://opensearch.org/disambiguation.html
In general I'm supportive of an Amazon open source fork here. But the name re-use is unfortunate. Amazon's argument seems to be "Don’t worry, we own the trademark for ‘OpenSearch’ cause it came out of Amazon originally, so it’s cool!” That is really poor stewardship of the Intellectual Property of the trademark of a name that was part of a standard that was meant to be an open multi-vendor standard. Amazon owned the…
I agree, it speaks poorly for their stewardship