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34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

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Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#231

Post by the_af »

silicon2401 wrote: post #223
the_af wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your city/country implementing lockdowns, and do you have a small apartment and/or your spouse working at the same time in the same space and/or young kids? Those variables tend to make all the difference between "happy to work from home" and "about to experience a mental breakdown".

> Is your city/country implementing lockdowns, they have and I didn't care, because I don't need to leave my home to enjoy my life. If anything a fully remote world would be even better because then I can go live in the countryside and have my own land without having to see other humans > do you have a small apartment and/or your spouse working at the same time in the same space yep, and we get along great. I love sp…

I think you misunderstood my point about spouse and kids: it wasn't about getting away from them, but about juggling work with kids vying for attention -- how do you explain a 2 year old that daddy has to work and cannot play with her for a few hours, and that she must stay locked in because there's a lockdown outside? -- and a couple sharing very limited space working at the same time (just think of Zoom meetings!).

If I could I'd spend most of the day enjoying time with my daughter and give my employer about half an hour of my attention. Sadly, I need a full time job.

If you can go live in a cabin in the woods, congrats! You're part of the elite. Please understand the rest of us who aren't.

It makes all the sense in the world that affluent people with large houses or living in beautiful locations, without kids, or with antisocial tendencies ("hermits", as you put it) are doing well during this pandemic. What about the rest of us?

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#232

Post by decafninja »

MattGaiser wrote: post #2

At any given point, half of workers are contemplating leaving. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/27/47percent-of-workers-are-con... The typical office worker spends a half hour searching for new jobs at work every day. https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/in-an-8-hour-day-the-aver... I’m not sure this is a revolution or just that plenty of people have no real attachment to their employer.

It's just another factor in the equation that (mostly) wasn't there before covid, because it was an extremely rare case where a company would offer the WFH perk.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#233

Post by greedo »

ironmagma wrote: post #171
Alupis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

My CEO sent out a company wide email admitting we had succeeded in becoming a remote company, and proceeded to tell us remote work is not an option going forward. So... no.

My company keeps on sending out surveys to see how people feel about the "Return to the Office." It's as if they'll keep sending out surveys until they get the answer they want to hear.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#234

Post by fuzzer37 »

iso1631 wrote: post #118
benbristow wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard enough in software engineering IMHO. What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now * Send a Slack message/email and wait an arbitrary amount of time for a response. * Organise a Skype/Teams/whatever call in a few hours time and feel guilty about it, as it feels rude to just ring someone as they could be occupied or busy. I spend a stupid amount of t…

We have an open slack call all day, if you want someone you just say "Bob, are you free". Bob is either busy and ignores you, or has time and can deal straight away.

Is that really better or different than an open office and saying "Hey, Bob" across the room?

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#235

Post by mulmen »

mym1990 wrote: post #156
mulmen wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does a quick interruption that unblocks me and allows me to continue working outweigh allowing you to finish your thing first? No, absolutely not. As my coworker you have no right to my time, at all. Certainly not on-demand. You are in no position to prioritize my time, especially in the context of you finishing your task. > Because maybe you're unblocked but I'm blocked by you now, and the thing that's actually bl…

This seems to be a pretty black and white comment when in reality a lot of these points are very grey. Just because I ask you in person for help from time to time does not equate to me not contributing anything. Just because someone asks you for help in person does not mean you can't say 'no, can you try me at this time or send me an email detailing the issue'. Solving problems can be a siloed experience, but dependi…

> Just because I ask you in person for help from time to time does not equate to me not contributing anything.

That's not what I said. My comment was about working in parallel and demanding immediate coworker input to advance.

> Just because someone asks you for help in person does not mean you can't say 'no, can you try me at this time or send me an email detailing the issue'.

The situation is not asking for help in person, it is interrupting to ask for help.

> Solving problems can be a siloed experience, but depending on the organization or team, most problems in today's businesses are team efforts, and require team collaboration. Having blinders with comments like 'solving your problems is your problem' is a great way to overlook when a problem someone is having is actually YOUR problem because you overlooked a bit of code or configuration or documentation.

I never said anything about working in silos. We still have a daily standup, we still do sprint planning, we still to regular operations reviews. I take ownership for my own actions and deliverables and help coworkers. This is simply a matter of how to request that assistance and the expectations around when that is provided.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#236

Post by throw14082020 »

mym1990 wrote: post #178
Dominisi wrote: post #149

For me, its all about the commute. Just do the math. 1-Hour commute time both ways: 21.8 Days a year you are spending commuting to/from work. 3-fucking-weeks of time, poof, gone. I'll get my social interaction else where for 3 weeks of my life back. Thanks.

While commuting is time-inefficient activity, if you let all 22 days a year disappear...thats on you. There are plenty of things to do in a car ride, train ride, bus ride, walk that are not 'poof, gone' uses of time.

Don't put the blame on them. There are plenty of reasons why it might suck: having to drive the car (and pay for it) to get to work, which also adds to the stress. Taking the train (depending on where you live) might also be uncomfortable: risk of dirt, disease, smell, and risk of assault when commuting home after working late. Cycling late at night might also increase the risk of accidents.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#237

Post by Sodman »

We talk a lot about the "You can't make me go back" crowd, but I don't think we give much thought to the "Why do I have to bend over backwards to support a few fully remote co-workers" crowd. Being fully remote works well (for some people) when the whole team is remote. My biggest fear is that hybrid environments can bring out the worst of both worlds.

I wonder how many people will quit if they're forced to work with remote-only employees on a regular basis? If you're having a meeting with 4 in-person co-workers and 2 remote co-workers, you have to make all sorts of accommodations for the remote folks that wouldn't be necessary for a meeting with the same 6 people in-person. "Can you repeat the question" / "Can you share your [other] screen?" / "Can we record this meeting?" / "Can you hold the camera up to the whiteboard?".

Similarly, if you're in the minority of remote folks on a hybrid team, you'll be at a disadvantage. You're likely forced to either miss out on some context/discussions from not being present or not being able to hear, or become "that person" asking folks to repeat themselves or specially accommodate you in various ways. Not to mention missing out on face time with the boss[es boss], which can (rightly or wrongly) often factor in to promotion/raise discussions.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#238

Post by iso1631 »

fuzzer37 wrote: post #234
iso1631 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have an open slack call all day, if you want someone you just say "Bob, are you free". Bob is either busy and ignores you, or has time and can deal straight away.

Is that really better or different than an open office and saying "Hey, Bob" across the room?

You can leave if you don't want to be disturbed far more easily than leaving a room, so has the benefits of the "Hey Bob" but with fewer drawbacks

I see no benefits of an office environment for my team (but then the 6 of us were split over multiple locations before covid) - the benefits are in the informal communication with people from other teams.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#239

Post by pbuzbee »

WORMS_EAT_WORMS wrote: post #41

Very interested in seeing the WTF happens with the housing market this year. Maybe a good indicator of truly how people feel about this vs random surveys. - Huge amount of people fleeing to suburbs last year. - Huge amount of people continuing to flee this year. - Lots of buyer regrets on hugely marked up homes as things normalize. - Bunch of workers getting called back into offices and people regretting commute time…

I wonder this too. People who bought houses outside of major urban metros either got in early and made a great purchase, OR they paid top dollar for something that won't keep its personal and/or financial value. Feels like it could still go either way.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#240

Post by decafninja »

mym1990 wrote: post #178
Dominisi wrote: post #149

For me, its all about the commute. Just do the math. 1-Hour commute time both ways: 21.8 Days a year you are spending commuting to/from work. 3-fucking-weeks of time, poof, gone. I'll get my social interaction else where for 3 weeks of my life back. Thanks.

While commuting is time-inefficient activity, if you let all 22 days a year disappear...thats on you. There are plenty of things to do in a car ride, train ride, bus ride, walk that are not 'poof, gone' uses of time.

Usually that time is "spent" either on:

1. Catching up on lost sleep because I had to wake up early to waste that time on commuting to the office.

2. Being wasted from a tiring day at work and not in any mood to do anything "productive" on transit, which itself further adds to fatigue and exhaustion.

As a bonus, you also get to roll the dice on whether you even get to sit. Whether it's 30 minutes or 90 minutes, holding onto a bar or strap stuffed into a metal container like sardines takes another huge mental and physical toll. Arrive at the office already tired and wasted, and arrive back home even more tired and wasted.

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