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Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

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Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#231
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess there's going to be a calibration period. The pendulum was stuck, it's started swinging, and the first few swings are completely out of whack. We'll get there, eventually.

Some very real issue have been highlighted in the last few years, issues that we really should have dealt with decades ago and I think you're right, there's currently an overreaction from society. That's will correct it self, even if some may still not like where we end up. Sadly if you're concerned with these overreaction, and voice those concerns, you will be labelled as being against the chance. You quickly learn…

> Sadly if you're concerned with these overreaction, and voice those concerns, you will be labelled as being against the change. You quickly learn to shut up and just wait it out.

This is a smart move for any kind of group/mob move/reaction, by the way. In much more extreme cases you'd be the smart, polite, but dead guy in the crowd, otherwise.

Crowds as a whole are rash and emotional, you can't reason with them. There's a reason Animal Farm had 10 word slogans, at most ;-)

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#232

I'm really glad to see this here. I don't have a better word readily available than sexism for trying to talk about patterns like this but when I use the word sexism , I think people think I mean "Men are intentionally exclusionary assholes just to be assholes because they simply hate women." and that's never what I'm trying to say. I find my gender is a barrier to getting traction and my experience is that it's due…

Wasn't Theranos debacle because the tech was never going to work due to it being borderline snake oil and whishful thinking hyped by con(wom)man?

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#233
I'm glad to see this here. I think people in general do not pay much attention to externalities. I wish to see people take a more holistic/deontological view of the fight for equality across all mankind (shit, is that a microaggression? personkind?). I'm not convinced that this over-correction ISN'T net positive either, but there is an ingrained assumption in the zeitgeist that it is a pure fight for a better world for those trodden upon. I don't think the case is so clear cut and I worry about the deafening silence when I look for introspection among those riding this wave of power. People who do not question the righteousness of their cause are frightening, whatever the cause may be. Nothing is righteous, everything is complex, I wish this was something that we could hold tightly in our collective consciousness. Subtlety and nuance is never as easy or attractive as brashness. I guess that's the nature of the beast, who would willingly attack themselves to prevent their own abuse of the power they've newly gained? Only a rare few, I doubt that will change.

"You must beware of shadows."

page 109 of The Little Schemer

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#234
post #3

It is absolutely unforgivable that we allow terms such as “mansplaining” to exist and be used unfettered and then on the other had deride their position because ! men not explaining things candidly ! Something has to give. Obviously obnoxious behaviour should be curbed but the usage of mansplaing (and I would argue: the minting of the term when we have an equivalent in “condescending”) I don’t even know what to say.…

I think of "mansplaining" as men giving unsolicited advice rooted in assuming women are just stupid and failing to recognize that things work differently for women, so women can do the same things men do and get different results, which means women do things differently from men and sometimes there seems to be no good means for a woman to do anything. Kind of like male construction workers can take their shirts off i…

It is ~~idiotic~~ alien to my world view to fire someone for having to take care of them selves not to overheat. Perhaps a better solution could have been providing more shade, rest, or cooling vests to everyone. And/or to re educate the male workforce not to be distracted so much that it would cause safety incidents. (I struggle to see how this would lead to serious issues. Is somebody going to be distracted so badly they are going to pour concrete over their colleague instead of in the hole?)

I’d say these situations show that we must have more diversity, not less, in all our interactions so that we learn to become more used to differences (insert race/gender/whatever else some people trip over.)

However idiotic it may seem, in a non-safe, litigating environment one can, sadly, expect these knee jerk reactions. The only way forward is to make our society a safer place. This probably relies on all parties becoming more aware of the effects of their actions as well on the receiving side having a buffer and being tolerant such that we don’t get a cascade effect.

Edit: I mean the above paragraph in the sense that just like aircraft investigations are about finding a root cause instead of blaming, discussions should be more about achieving harmony together or to agree to disagree.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#235

What a BS article. How about we give advice and feedback that is... not sexist? Crazy idea, right?! If you say things that are not sexist nobody will accuse you of sexism. Simple as that. And if you don't know what is and what is not sexist then most likely you are sexist. Then go and educate yourself on the topic, and don't waste time writing excuses on online forums.

> If you say things that are not sexist nobody will accuse you of sexism

The article is all about how that is, unfortunately, false.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#236
I have been extremely fortuante that women have always found me very attractive and there is not a single job I've had where female co-workers didn't make comments at work which would not have been seen as extremely inappropriate the other way around. Even when I was 19 and I got my first job some 30+/40+ year old female co-workers heavily flirted with me in the most inappropriate way. I'm not gonna lie, I enjoyed it for many years and definitely have had many fond memories because of it, but equally it has shaped me of how I think of some of the outrage which is happening nowadays the other way around.

I even had married women behave extremely inapproriate, with some groping me in various places, getting me drunk at work parties and trying to get me make a first move if they felt bad about doing it themselves.

It's not like all women at work acted unprofessionally with me, but there was enough inappropriate behaviour that everyone knew about it and guess what, not a single women told another women that this behaviour was not ok.

Interestingly, after I got into a serious relationship and stopped to accept such behaviour I have had many women above me to turn on me and treat me as if I offended them by not flirting back.

All I know is that all humans are the same. Let's pay women an equal wage but please let's not pretend that women in power are any better than men.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#237

I'm really glad to see this here. I don't have a better word readily available than sexism for trying to talk about patterns like this but when I use the word sexism , I think people think I mean "Men are intentionally exclusionary assholes just to be assholes because they simply hate women." and that's never what I'm trying to say. I find my gender is a barrier to getting traction and my experience is that it's due…

It's more like reverse sexism here. I totally get the behaviour here. You simply don't want to be on the receiving end of potential backlash when you're just trying to help someone. The calculus being you feel as if you might make a genuine remark only to receive a response interpreting said remark as the product of sexism e.g "out of persons A and B, I think B should run the company" where A is a woman and B is a ma…

[deleted]

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#238

This is kind of the end result we're heading for, where you can only talk candidly with people who are equal or lower than you on the oppression hierarchy. The shitty part is that I'm pretty sure 99% of people are reasonable human beings but the media has to make it seem like that isn't the case so the risk equation changes. Similar to how kids used to roam around the neighborhood but now it's deemed too risky becaus…

Women have for years had the same fear of men. Most men, good people. Or at least not criminally bad. But some are. But the social stigma of women going out alone at night, fear of first dates etc. has permeated the social fabric of how women have to treat men on their day to day. I've yet to encounter a woman who has gone from internalizing this aspect of society to dropping their priors and living care free without fear of men they don't know / met for the first time.

They have had decades, minimum, of this just being how things are. And things have not found a way to change to a more easy going society. If anything things have just hardened up as information and media have become more prevalent. In comparison, powerful people fearing being potentially (mis)interpreted not being worth the risk to their entire career is a relatively new phenomenon. I wager that the OP of this article doesn't have a solution to the problem of trust by investors, because women have yet to discover the solution to their own generalized mistrust of men outside their direct social circle despite how long that situation has gone on for.

Until the risk / reward dynamic changes (and I do not see how it could without making people less accountable), I fully anticipate that this self censorship in society will not only just continue, but will yet increase further in an information society where powerful people can be made accountable by the public as stories of people being held to account to their actions, regardless of whether those actions were deliberate, accidental or misunderstandings.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#240

Exactly as intended. Beneath the surface, this "social justice" movement is nothing but a power grab, primarily from those who could not attain such power by merit. All of society suffers when decisions are made according to gender or race rather than ability. This is an organized, quasi-religious campaign of oppression, self-justified by perceived oppression. The key word here is perceived - it is trivial to "find"…

A person or group whom is wronged seems to instinctively react by desiring that particular wrong to be corrected.

It is sadly rare for any to take a full step back and view the wrong within the broader context and redress the true wrong(s) which lead to the individual persecution and often a myopically inverse racist or sexist or group-ist patch that still fails to address the root cause of the issue(s).

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