Nobody designs for small iPhone devices anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: Nobody designs for small iPhone devices anymore

#231

Post by Kwpolska » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #198

brundolf wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mistake; I made the assumption the Mini would be smaller Still, the point remains that lots of people are rocking an iPhone older than the XS (the 9 came out at the same time as the X) and would have these same problems

You're correct; I myself still have an iPhone 8. But I tend to think of problems I experience on my iPhone 8 as "being gradually left behind by an ecosystem that has moved on", rather than as "not being supported." (Like how it feels to try to use Windows 8.1 in 2021. It’s not technically End-of-Life’d... but do third-party devs even mention it on download-page compatibility lists any more?) With an iPhone 8, I know…

The iPhone SE 2020 and the iPhone 8 have the exact same screens. So it’s not your fault, it’s the lazy developers’ who can’t be bothered to sit down with the Simulator, click through the app, and fix at least the most basic glitches.

> The iPhone SE case is more concerning, because it's still for sale at the Apple Store. This means Apple is claiming it's fit-for-purpose for at least some use-cases. (Maybe that claim doesn't extend to "running apps from the App Store", though.)

Nah, Apple’s marketing copy [0] says:

> We put the brains of iPhone 11 Pro in the body of iPhone SE. Our A13 Bionic chip is built for speed. So everything feels fluid, whether you’re launching apps, playing the latest games, or exploring new ways to work and play with augmented reality.

(Also, a smartphone without third-party apps is quite useless for most users.)

[0]: https://www.apple.com/iphone-se/

Re: Nobody designs for small iPhone devices anymore

#232

Post by mgkimsal » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 7:00 PM UTC

lh7777 wrote: post #189

mgkimsal wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar here - I just went up to a 12 mini because the SE I had was... well - still worked, but I wanted to 'forward proof' myself a bit. I suspect it may not go past iOS 14 (I just upgraded - was on 12 for a long time). For things like banking, etc, I wanted to know my device will work for the next few years, and this is the smallest I can get that still is in the ios/apple world. I somewhat regret this, as I miss t…

> But people wanting 5" phones are apparently in a minority. Let alone 4" phones! I'm still happy with my original SE, but the nuisances are starting to add up. I really prefer TouchID to FaceID and still use my headphone jack, so there's nothing in Apple's current lineup for me. Fingers crossed that the rumors are right about the return of TouchID and the rumors are wrong about the mini being discontinued. If they f…

the headphone jack is a nuisance, certainly. I've migrated to AirPods for a lot of stuff, but miss the jack and wired headphones. I did just learn about this 'reachability' thing in iOS, where you can pull down the top half of the screen to the bottom. this makes up for some of the stretching I was needing to do, but yeah, in so many ways the SE was such a good combination of qualities - size, features, etc.

Re: Nobody designs for small iPhone devices anymore

#233

Post by skohan » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 7:04 PM UTC

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #211

burntoutfire wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't that the original value proposution of the Apple products under Jobs? That the overall craftsmanship was high and they just didn't feel crappy like their competitors'?

it certainly seemed that way to me at the time... i miss ios 3.

When iOS3 was a thing, there was exactly one screen size to support at one resolution, and when you went to the home screen the app closed so you could count on a predictable state every time the app opened. We used to measure design elements in number of pixels back then. It was a much simpler time.

Re: Nobody designs for small iPhone devices anymore

#234

Post by m-p-3 » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 7:10 PM UTC

tyfon wrote: post #67

tinus_hn wrote: post #45

A big part of the problem is people just not following the guidelines. If you have a toolbar with buttons that have labels, it’s not going to fit. But if you’re following the guidelines, you don’t have labels and it fits. If you have a list with a refresh button on the bottom you have to scroll to see that button on a small screen. But if you use the standard pull to refresh control, you don’t even need the button. I…

The custom buttons without labels are a pet peeve of mine actually. I can never guess what the buttons do when they only have pictures and each app use their own icon set. There are some apps that use standard buttons that I recognize but far too many want to be fancy and roll their own making the app practically unusable unless you guess correct or press all buttons to see what they do. But you are correct in that i…

Some Android Material Design guidelines (which are often not followed..) specifies that you should be able to press-hold a button and have a popup label shows up to describe its function.

I don't remember exactly where I've seen it, but for example in Android you can press-hold some buttons without labels and you see a toaster-style popup indicating its function.

Re: Nobody designs for small iPhone devices anymore

#235

Post by deadmutex » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 7:16 PM UTC

the_jeremy wrote: post #219

smileybarry wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube added live chat not because of Facebook, but because of Twitch which popularized this live-video-with-synchronized-chat. (except on Twitch it's about 1-10s of delay where on YouTube it's 30+ minimum) Facebook and YouTube then borrowed that feature when they added livestreaming.

Things[0][1] I've looked at says Twitch's delay is much longer than 1s. [0]: https://www.fairlyoddstreamers.com/post/twitch-stream-delay [1]: https://onetwostream.com/blog/twitch-delay/

Understatement

Re: Nobody designs for small iPhone devices anymore

#236

Post by riantogo » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 7:18 PM UTC

I'm humbled by the effort required to create good UI that works well everywhere. That is why I decided to use stock bootstrap with minimal changes. The designer tried to customize it (causing flaws on certain screen sizes). I had them roll it all back to strict use of bootstrap classes. I'm okay with the limitations imposed. Atleast it is functional everywhere.

Re: Nobody designs for small iPhone devices anymore

#237

Post by bartvk » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 7:27 PM UTC

valuearb wrote: post #156

tinus_hn wrote: post #45

A big part of the problem is people just not following the guidelines. If you have a toolbar with buttons that have labels, it’s not going to fit. But if you’re following the guidelines, you don’t have labels and it fits. If you have a list with a refresh button on the bottom you have to scroll to see that button on a small screen. But if you use the standard pull to refresh control, you don’t even need the button. I…

Let’s not get me started on tiny tap areas. Virtually every graphic designer I have ever worked with is ignorant of Apples 44 by 44 point recommendation. They just want their designs to look good, but give no though to how they feel, especially when trying to use them one handed or with disabilities.

What's funny is that Apple themselves are not helping.

If I use the following SwiftUI code, I get a button that's 24.5 x 22.5.

    Button(action: {}, label: {
        Image(systemName: "magnifyingglass")
            .imageScale(.large)
    })

The .imageScale modifier is set to the largest! That button is abysmally small. You can use padding of course, and that's what I do. I suspect I'm missing something, but I can't see a reason why .large gives me an unusably small image.

Re: Nobody designs for small iPhone devices anymore

#238

Post by vbezhenar » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 7:29 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #227

vbezhenar wrote: post #3

That was the case when I owned iPhone 4S. I think that around iOS 9 it was poorly usable partially because developers ignored its dimensions. That's a pity. I still think that 3.5" is the best smartphone size and I would pay good money to buy modern smartphone with good internals. But it does not make sense, even if some Android manufacturer would create it, apps and websites will ruin it.

There's the new Palm phone[0], which is absolutely perfect in every way except for the fact that it runs Android. I would give anything for an iOS phone like this. [0] https://palm.com/pages/product

Thanks, that's really interesting product!

Re: Nobody designs for small iPhone devices anymore

#239

Post by anonymousab » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 7:42 PM UTC

the_jeremy wrote: post #219

smileybarry wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube added live chat not because of Facebook, but because of Twitch which popularized this live-video-with-synchronized-chat. (except on Twitch it's about 1-10s of delay where on YouTube it's 30+ minimum) Facebook and YouTube then borrowed that feature when they added livestreaming.

Things[0][1] I've looked at says Twitch's delay is much longer than 1s. [0]: https://www.fairlyoddstreamers.com/post/twitch-stream-delay [1]: https://onetwostream.com/blog/twitch-delay/

The delay depends on a lot of things, from configurable settings for the streamer (both on twitch and on their machine) and for the viewer (low-latency mode, and sometimes, explicitly not! using it), as well as things outside of their control - in Twitch's infra and just general internet latency.

It's not uncommon for streamers to display their chat in a sidebar on the stream, or overlaid on the content itself. From this, I've observed delays as low as (or maybe a bit lower than) a second, and as high as 30s - though I haven't seen anything nearly that high in a long time.

I suspect bigger or more successful streamers are prioritized on Twitch's backend. But I think the threshold for "successful" is actually rather low - someone consistently getting just hundreds of viewers is probably there already, in that top percentile.

Re: Nobody designs for small iPhone devices anymore

#240

Post by tinus_hn » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 8:00 PM UTC

gregoriol wrote: post #174

spaetzleesser wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Just press it (quick and natural) and see what it does!” And if it deletes something you wanted to keep you have learned a valuable and lasting lesson :)

If a button does that kind of critical action, it better have a better and much more visible explanation + confirmation than just a hidden hover tooltip

At least it’s supposed to be red