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Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

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Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#231

Post by zepto »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #206
zepto wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but you can hardly say the nation understood in this sense is hostile I don’t see how you can make this claim so strongly. The government is not independent of the people even if it is authoritarian. Any hostility enacted by the government will necessarily involve the people. Governments need people in order to do anything . A government without people can speak hostile words, but can’t be hostile, because by defin…

What you say is of course true of democracy, but has nothing to do with totalitarian systems and dictatorships.

I can’t see any way what I said doesn’t apply equally to totalitarian systems and dictatorships.

You will need to explain.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#232

Post by elefanten »

FpUser wrote: post #188
elefanten wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fantasy burden you've constructed. What would even count as "proof"? Anything that incrementally changes the field of possibility? Or something that definitely proves what happened? Microsoft has done untrustworthy things. They've also build the most successful (esp. in the longer view) commercial computing ecosystem because it hit the right balance between stability/robustness/usability. Many elements of th…

>"are you referring to the relatively most peaceful, humane, self-effacing hegemon that has ever been known the planet" Millions of bombed, displaced and otherwise sanctioned to oblivion might disagree with this level of modesty and humility.

The word "relatively" served a purpose in that statement. Can you name a hegemon that was more peaceful and humane? Which European colonial power at its height, which Chinese dynasty, which Mongol khanate would you prefer?

Maybe America wouldn't be top of the list but the point is made in distinction to other regimes that achieved remotely similar power differentials.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#233

Post by FpUser »

elefanten wrote: post #232
FpUser wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"are you referring to the relatively most peaceful, humane, self-effacing hegemon that has ever been known the planet" Millions of bombed, displaced and otherwise sanctioned to oblivion might disagree with this level of modesty and humility.

The word "relatively" served a purpose in that statement. Can you name a hegemon that was more peaceful and humane? Which European colonial power at its height, which Chinese dynasty, which Mongol khanate would you prefer? Maybe America wouldn't be top of the list but the point is made in distinction to other regimes that achieved remotely similar power differentials.

I am sort of speechless. Am totally put off by the amount of egomaniacal and warmongering posts in this thread.

Sorry you honor. I am the nice guy here. I've only raped few thousands. Lemme off.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#234

Post by vijayr02 »

dgellow wrote: post #201
vijayr02 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China owns more than 1 trillion of US debt. In the past the country bought a massive amount of US debt to inflate USD vs RMB and boost their own economy...If the US blocks them they may start massively selling US debt, which would impact USD and the US economy. I think you have this backwards. China bought US treasuries to weaken their currency and increase demand for their goods. If they now sell, they will face s…

That’s what I mean, yes. I don’t see the difference between my comment and yours. I was answering to someone talking about cutting China off the US market (or at minimum adding strong restrictions). In that situation China’s economy is already suffering.

Apologies if I misinterpreted your comment, but I understood your second point as a risk primarily to the US.

My response was that such an act by China would actually help the US economy, not hurt it (while simultaneously hurting China).

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#235

Post by solosoyokaze »

elefanten wrote: post #98
solosoyokaze wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Microsoft and the current White House are on the extreme side of untrustworthy. What has MS ever done that was trustworthy? Their entire existence has been based on abusing a monopoly. The US government is also extremely untrustworthy (c.f. the 20th century). The combination of these two entities pushing the same story is a huge red flag. Who would I trust? I’ll start with someone providing some sort of proof…

That's a fantasy burden you've constructed. What would even count as "proof"? Anything that incrementally changes the field of possibility? Or something that definitely proves what happened? Microsoft has done untrustworthy things. They've also build the most successful (esp. in the longer view) commercial computing ecosystem because it hit the right balance between stability/robustness/usability. Many elements of th…

> relatively most peaceful, humane, self-effacing hegemon that has ever been known the planet

The US murdered massive amounts of people in East Asia and the Middle East during that time period. Napalm, Agent Orange, war crimes... We were as bad as any hegemony. Much worse actually, due to technical superiority. We also have the largest prison population of any country (per capita and in total) due to the "war" on drugs.

So yes, I'd say we're near the bottom of the list. Especially if you go back past the 20th century (slavery, genocide).

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#236

Post by fspeech »

BobbyJo wrote: post #223
fspeech wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and Facebook have more access to capital, financial or human, than any of their competitors. If anything they are at a strong competitive advantage in this respect.

This thread was about the unfairness of asymmetrical market access, not who is worth the most right now. Side note, in all likelihood, ByteDance would be worth a lot more if they were an American company, even if nothing about their business and revenue changed, because there would be less perceived systemic risk. That being said, the capital difference between them and Google in terms of PPP isn't huge because of lo…

I merely refuted your claim of where the competitive advantage came from. It is clearly from the network effect of the first movers. China blocked Google and Facebook so they could not exploit their first mover advantage in China. If US wants to do the same to TikTok for the same reason I am totally fine with it. It is just kind of lame to attribute it to unrelated issues. Of course there is a reason for obfuscation here, at least from the government's point of view. If it becomes the norm in the world to block companies from exploiting their first mover advantage due to network effect across national boundaries, US companies would suffer more.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#237

Post by fc373745 »

kortilla wrote: post #173
fc373745 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is state driven media possible in the US? If so, is it possible that the mass accumulation of hatred for the Chinese is a byproduct of state driven media?

> hatred for the Chinese The equivocation of hatred for the Chinese and hatred for it’s government is itself Chinese government propaganda. Any time criticism comes up of the actions of their government, the deflection method is to say it’s just hatred for the Chinese. This is done to prevent the Chinese people from realizing that people in the West are on their side and they are not their government.

Unfortunately, i don't think anyone is that dim to conclude that the accusations against the Chinese government is out of pure empathy for the Chinese people.

If it was the case that your empathy stretches across the pacific ocean for the Uighurs, then why does it not stretch for the Palestinians? I think the actions taken by Israel is way worse of a human rights violation than China is doing, but because the West supports Israel, it turns a blind eye against the Palestinians?

Moreover, one can formulate and theoretically, yes accusations should not equivocate as hatred for the Chinese.

But in practice, this isn't true at all.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#238

Post by kortilla »

Udik wrote: post #210
kortilla wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hatred for the Chinese The equivocation of hatred for the Chinese and hatred for it’s government is itself Chinese government propaganda. Any time criticism comes up of the actions of their government, the deflection method is to say it’s just hatred for the Chinese. This is done to prevent the Chinese people from realizing that people in the West are on their side and they are not their government.

The overwhelming majority of Chinese people stand by their government, with levels of approval and satisfaction way higher than Americans' for theirs (95% vs 38%) [1] All this talk of "the CCP" is just a very thin veil of self-deception, allowing you to pretend that you are "on the same side" of the Chinese people. You're not. The best future for China is to become the dominant world power, and you don't want that in…

> The overwhelming majority of Chinese people stand by their government, with levels of approval and satisfaction way higher than Americans' for theirs (95% vs 38%) [1]

And guess which country disappears citizens for “re-education” if they speak out against said government. You’d have to be daft to respond to those surveys negatively in China if there was any kind of chance your response could be traced back to you.

> The best future for China is to become the dominant world power, and you don't want that in any form or shape, am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. Becoming “the” dominant world power has little to do with the good of the people. Norway’s citizens are better off than US citizens on average and Norway is irrelevant on the global power scale.

Regardless, you are still confused about what people are against. It’s not China becoming a world power (it already is). It’s literally the abusive way the CCP treats dissidents. Look at the Muslim camps, look at Honk Kong, look at Winnie the Pooh.

Let it sink in that most people are happy the Chinese lives are improving. The issue is with the fascists at the top.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#239

Post by kortilla »

Udik wrote: post #216
pja wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think it's safe to give an honest negative answer when asked your opinion of the CCCP in China? Personally I doubt it, and I imagine that the average Chinese citizen understands this reality very well indeed as they give their positive answers to the nice poll agent with the sincerest smile they can muster. Everyone knows how the game is played.

Do you really think the people involved in this 13 year survey are so stupid they didn't think of the issue you could identify in a good 5 seconds of thinking before writing your comment?

Their paper outlines no solution to this.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#240

Post by kortilla »

v-yadli wrote: post #190
kortilla wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hatred for the Chinese The equivocation of hatred for the Chinese and hatred for it’s government is itself Chinese government propaganda. Any time criticism comes up of the actions of their government, the deflection method is to say it’s just hatred for the Chinese. This is done to prevent the Chinese people from realizing that people in the West are on their side and they are not their government.

> This is done to prevent the Chinese people from realizing that people in the West are on their side and they are not their government. Currently there are more than 919.14 million CPC members in China (data point circa 2019), and this does not include the people working for 事业单位 (gov. funded public institutes). So for a random Chinese citizen, Western people have a, like, 3% chance of hate and 97% of love? If we pr…

Nope. The shit is a result of decisions at the top. I have no beef with people who work for local government offices.
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