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How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

thorstenball.com

231–240 of 373 posts

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#231
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the “trick” is to find a fulfilling non computer based hobby

I agree. I don't do side projects, I do BJJ and ride motorcycles. Those things keep me from getting burned out on coding.

My rule about side projects is that I only work on them until they stop being fun. I'm ok using my free time to try out a new language or something, but once I'm tracking down bugs I just stop. I'm not doing that for free.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#232
post #72

Something I sometimes think about in this vein: how many lines of code, written by how many people, in how many different times and places, are traversed on your computer every second? It's kind of mind-blowing to me, and I can't think of anything else that works like that. It would be like if, when building a new house, you built it around an existing house, and continued to add layer after layer, and generations la…

This is true of any complex object, though. Any skyscraper you walk into probably has parts and labor coming from thousands of different places.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People used to do things a lot more (Not limited to using a hammer). Now, they tend to stay on their phones/computers.

Do young people not buy IKEA furniture?

No idea. IKEA doesn't exist in my country.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#235
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That link deserves a top-level post.

I've tossed it in the submit page. It was submitted once before, but didn't gain any traction then. As an aside, it is interesting looking at the history of other submissions from the same author - https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=uni.edu

I gave it an updoot, so here's hoping for better this time.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The longer I am in this profession (and it's been over 20 years) the less I see my peers as "dicks and idiots" but more as victims of the same broken game. I work with very smart people, to be honest. It's the technology and the employers and the culture of development that's the problem. Retiring sounds good right about now.

> Retiring sounds good right about now. I tried that. After 6 weeks of watching TV I restarted my business and went back to work. Retirement is a living death.

Watching TV is a living death. Retirement is what you make of it.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#237
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An alternate perspective to this is. The great line of thought, that you are meant to 'follow your passion' and discover your true calling. There is a job mean for you and you just need to find it. I disagree with this and feel this thinking makes peoples lives miserable thinking they're somehow wasting their lives and makes people take plunges in life that they later regret. I feel there is space for an attitude tha…

There's a blog post from a CS Professor that I stumbled across a bit ago - Find The Hard Work You're Willing To Do - http://www.cs.uni.edu/%7Ewallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018... Its short, only a few short paragraphs - but it has one key piece that I've found myself oft quoting to people: > Maybe this is what people mean when they tell us to "find our passion", but that phrase seems pretty abstract to me. Maybe in…

Great link. As someone who burned out on a first career for exactly the reason stated, this is advice that I wish I’d received when younger, and the advice I’ll give my kids when they’re old enough.

Trying to progress in your chosen craft when you find the actual challenge to be sheer tedium is deeply demoralising and can affect other aspects of your life. In my case it lead to feelings of helplessness and pointlessness.

Such a great link - states the problem succinctly and provides an excellent heuristic. Thanks for sharing.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For almost exactly the same reasons as discussed above, I'm in the process of trying to move from software development to medicine. I'm currently a pre-hospital medical practitioner and work part-time in that field. My pay averages over the last year averages between 1/20th to 1/25th (0.05 to 0.04 times) my hourly pay as a software development consultant. I'm now trying to decide whether I should attempt a medical de…

>I'm now trying to decide whether I should attempt a medical degree to become a doctor Have you reviewed how much sleep deprivation would be involved in the path towards being a doctor? It differs depending on the path, but middle-age and lack of sleep may be very hard (source: have multiple surgeons in my near circle). But it is very specific to the path you pick, of course. I am currently trying to see if I can fin…

> Have you reviewed how much sleep deprivation would be involved in the path towards being a doctor? It differs depending on the path, but middle-age and lack of sleep may be very hard (source: have multiple surgeons in my near circle). But it is very specific to the path you pick, of course.

Yes, I have. My first career (maybe employment path) was as an enlisted soldier. It took some modification of sleeping patterns to go from probably the laziest teenager you can imagine to an NCO at age 18.

In Ireland, where I live, all junior doctors work absurd hours and call shifts. Theoretically, they all opt out of the EU working time directive. As a long-standing proponent of labour rights and as one of the few prospective doctors who may not require a salary to fund legal action, it would be my intention to go through the (even without free-out-of-hours-labour) ridiculously exploitative process on my own, and fight for EU-backed terms for myself as a test-case for my future colleagues.

Of course, even many doctors consider the "crucible of fire" an essential part of becoming a doctor, so it would be an uphill battle that would only affect a precedent in one tiny country (Ireland).

I have no interest in becoming a martyr. I also have no interest in becoming a doctor. I have an interest in being able to provide the highest level of pre-hospital trauma and medical care to patients in distress.

In Ireland, that means becoming a doctor. Unfortunately, becoming a doctor who works reasonable hours might require becoming a martyr.

>I am currently trying to see if I can find a niche in healthcare, away from my software manager job, but am taking it slowly. For me, the 7 years of school are impossible, so no doctor for me. This comment is not meant to be in any way discouraging, and it may be presumptuous of me, as you have perhaps spoken to multiple doctors in the field interesting to you.

I didn't in any way read your comment as contradictory. In fact, this is almost exactly how I how felt. At some point in the last five years, I became aware that all my military first aid certs were out of date, and began my training as an EMT. Once I passed all the tests (which involved a lot more study and testing than any CS degree exam I ever took), I began to volunteer.

As an EMT, which at least in Ireland is 1/100th of a medicine degree, I became involved in more critical care cases in my first year than a junior doctor might see. Due to the SAR nature of my role, there is unfortunately a high likelihood of exposure to death, but every experience is a learning experience.

However, if your goal is to help people in acute distress, then becoming an EMT (or even lessor qualification) who can act as an immediate cardiac first responder is a great option.

> The feeling of tipping the needle towards keeping someone alive is incomparable, best wishes with your path transition, whatever it ends up being.

This is such a truism that I feel huge parts of the healthcare system relies on it. It's certainly true for me. I honestly feel it would be true for many others if they could see the direct benefit of their efforts.

I am aware that this is an absurdly long and rambling response to your comment - I reckon that I’m probably struggling in the same position as you. If you want to DM me, please do - I’m very open to feedback.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#239
I am one of those people who wants their code to be poetry. Ideas and logic expressed in the simplest most elegant terms. But when I left academia for industry and started working on a bigger project requiring coordination between many dozens of people, I realized that this approach is not conducive to making money. My idealism collided with the complexity of the real world. Software is a mess, but a beautiful mess. I now realize this is not necessarily a reflection of the skill of those who write it, rather the complexity inherent in the users domain.

Re: How can you not be romantic about programming? (2020)

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, thanks for sharing this. Mind expanding? I'm curious to hear what you had planned going into retirement and what you seek going back to work. Are you right back to the same as you were right before "retiring"? Knowing how your first round of retirement went, what would you have done differently in the years/decades leading up to it?

I tried it. I figured out I can make a few dollars a minute sitting in front of a computer screen or I can make 0 dollars a minute sitting in front of a computer screen. Those are my two choices. The choice is pretty clear.

You could also make 0 dollars a minute standing on a surf board, hiking in a national park or reading a book. There are a lot of things in life that are more interesting than computers.
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