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China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

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Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#231

Post by varjag »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #200
jonathannat wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The era of CCP economic rise is over. Middle income trap and aging demographics dictate as much. CCP will now have to contend with - internal turmoil - political infighting - encirclement by democracies (India, Japan, Australia, US, UK, Canada, France, South Korea, Taiwan). Once Merkel is out in sept 2021, Germany will be onboard - negative sentiment from most of population in the world due to covid - exploding debt/…

Yes, many good points, but some of the same problems exist in the West and in the Asian democracies: covid, debt, aging demographics. China does have one compelling advantage: its enormous population. Even if a horrible plague or even a civil war happened and 100m people died, they still have plenty of people to accomplish anything they want. They have Ph.D. scientists, many trained at top Western universities, who a…

> China does have one compelling advantage: its enormous population.

Which so far translates into ability to outcompete robots on cost and not much else.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#232

Post by blisterpeanuts »

jonathannat wrote: post #225
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, many good points, but some of the same problems exist in the West and in the Asian democracies: covid, debt, aging demographics. China does have one compelling advantage: its enormous population. Even if a horrible plague or even a civil war happened and 100m people died, they still have plenty of people to accomplish anything they want. They have Ph.D. scientists, many trained at top Western universities, who a…

China's 1.3B population is not equal. around 700M still lives on $140/month income, with no education to "accomplish anything they want". It will have 500M 65 year olds by 2050, too old to "accomplish anything they want". China suffers brain drain to the West. Many of Chinese Ph.D students and scientists I know curse the day Xi Jing Ping declared himself to be the emperor, and is actively moving their families out of…

>advanced semiconductor or airplane engine...

Not to disagree, but I believe it's just a matter of time. They're working hard in these areas.

Also, recent stats I read somewhere say Chinese Ph.D.'s are returning to China in increasing numbers these days, somewhere around 50% or more compared to the old days when the majority stayed in America or Europe.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#233

Post by itsthefnlacctdn »

f430 wrote: post #95

Guo Wengui said back in September 2019 that "Jack Ma would be jailed or killed" on Kyle Bass's youtube channel. [1] At this point its not even a question of whether we will see Jack Ma in public again. Overnight he went from billionaire to peasantry. We've seen dozen cases like this: 1) Billionaire disappears or is "killed" 2) Billionaire's company becomes nationalized 3) Rinse & Repeat Everybody who isn't familiar w…

I highly doubt that many Chinese people even want to be billionaires. This might be some holy level us Westerners dream of reaching but I appreciate that there is a state power that is larger than that of a corporation's. Some person made a killing off the backs of its nation/citizens and they get to call themselves king and write the rules?

I wish this delusion that we can all reach this level through hard work can dissipate already. This is a guillotine dropping on a kings head, I applaud the CCP. As if I will lose sleep if Bezos or Gates lost their keys to the castle.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#235

Post by scarmig »

ogre_codes wrote: post #89

Wow.. this is like a giant gift to Amazon. Obviously they aren't getting more Chinese business, but they've struggled there already. But it makes it a lot easier for them to compete everywhere else. Competing against CCP is going to be a lot easier than competing against Jack Ma.

Let's play this out. Suppose the CCP does nationalize BABA, and as a result Amazon starts beating it. Over time Amazon comes to dominate Chinese ecommerce, with hundreds of billions of yuan flowing from Chinese consumers to Bezos' pocket. Bezos then says something critical of the CCP.

How is this scenario likely to develop after that point?

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#236

Post by saiya-jin »

agumonkey wrote: post #145
f430 wrote: post #95

Guo Wengui said back in September 2019 that "Jack Ma would be jailed or killed" on Kyle Bass's youtube channel. [1] At this point its not even a question of whether we will see Jack Ma in public again. Overnight he went from billionaire to peasantry. We've seen dozen cases like this: 1) Billionaire disappears or is "killed" 2) Billionaire's company becomes nationalized 3) Rinse & Repeat Everybody who isn't familiar w…

It's odd to experience (afar) what the cold war era people were fearing.

Fearing? They wouldn't be even allowed to grow any business, forbidden by state. This is socialism&capitalism hybrid, seemingly taking the worst out of both. Merciless efficiency (at least for the goals of those in helm, which might not align with long term economic success), not slowed down by some pesky human rights

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#237

Post by justicezyx »

umeshunni wrote: post #174
star-trek-fleet wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The west has invested a lot into the Chinese economy hoping to translate the corresponding equity into growth Chinese people are jointly invest in that venture, by (not limited to): * Sacrifice family and personal time, by hundreds of millions of passent migration workers. * Sacrifice health and life quality, even today 996 still a norm, and you can imagine what have been since the opening up * Environment, early p…

> At the top, it was CCP and Western capitalists grabbed most of the profit, but leaving the waste to be suffered by the people. That framing seems disingenuous given that per capita income in China has increased something like 10x in the last few decades and hundreds of millions have been lifted out of poverty.

Money is a relatively measure, your 10x is nothing compared to someone else's 10x

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#238

Post by jonathannat »

jjcc wrote: post #227
jonathannat wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The era of CCP economic rise is over. Middle income trap and aging demographics dictate as much. CCP will now have to contend with - internal turmoil - political infighting - encirclement by democracies (India, Japan, Australia, US, UK, Canada, France, South Korea, Taiwan). Once Merkel is out in sept 2021, Germany will be onboard - negative sentiment from most of population in the world due to covid - exploding debt/…

Maybe your analysis make sense. But I often look opposite analysis to defeat the algorithm of social media. Personally I think it's partially responsible for there are 2 different realities that lead to the Jan 6 Capitol event. Here's a piece that draws quite different picture from yours. https://worldaffairs.blog/2020/12/31/from-terrified-to-trium...

a quick glimpse of the link you sent, alot of the economic data depends on you trusting the data coming from a dictatorship which obfuscates every clear economic signals. So I don't buy it personally. As for politics, China aligned itself with small countries/other dictatorships, while the big democracies that composes of 80+% of the world's economies united. As for tech, you need to also believe the claims they made.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#239

Post by eplanit »

f430 wrote: post #95

Guo Wengui said back in September 2019 that "Jack Ma would be jailed or killed" on Kyle Bass's youtube channel. [1] At this point its not even a question of whether we will see Jack Ma in public again. Overnight he went from billionaire to peasantry. We've seen dozen cases like this: 1) Billionaire disappears or is "killed" 2) Billionaire's company becomes nationalized 3) Rinse & Repeat Everybody who isn't familiar w…

"As much as people in the West praise CCP's economic rise, and some even point to its authoritarian system as superior to our democracy..."

They do? I don't think this describes a large population.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#240

Post by leafmeal »

f430 wrote: post #141
f00zz wrote: post #38

Article looks fishy. But if China goes down this route, it looks like fears of China economically overtaking the US are overblown.

> China economically overtaking the US are overblown. They never really stood a chance. Militarily, economically, socially, culturally and spiritually they offer no better alternative to the American one. Similar to how "China owns US treasuries and can crash the US dollar" was the common trope until recently, the US called them out the trillion dollar loan to Qing dynasty which was transferred from KMT to CCP after…

Your claims about social, cultural and spiritual inferiority sound like outright zenophobia/racism.
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