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Stripe bans Trump campaign

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Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#231

Post by betterunix2 »

cblconfederate wrote: post #136

I m sorry but all this concerted action feels (from afar) a lot like "if people don't vote the way we want, we re just gonna have to force them". It's not about overreach, but companies are not political entities, and reversing this relationship is a self-defeating travesty And if they are doing it for cheap popularity points -- well trump may be gone in a week, but his voters won't leave. this just reinforces mistru…

Sorry, are you talking about the action by Stripe, or the action of the terrorists on Wednesday? See, it is hard to know, because on Wednesday Trump held a campaign rally where he told a crowd of armed terrorists to go to the Capitol and "save" the country from "weak" Republicans who were going to vote to certify the results of the election Trump lost.

Nobody is coordinating these various bans. The fact is that the Trump campaign had been allowed to violate terms of service for years because he was a major party candidate for president, and then because he actually became president. Those special allowances could only go so far. Once Trump crossed the line and started giving marching orders to terrorist groups -- and yes, the people who ransacked the Capitol were terrorists according to the definition the US government itself uses -- nobody could continue to look the other way.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#232

Post by gameswithgo »

cblconfederate wrote: post #136

I m sorry but all this concerted action feels (from afar) a lot like "if people don't vote the way we want, we re just gonna have to force them". It's not about overreach, but companies are not political entities, and reversing this relationship is a self-defeating travesty And if they are doing it for cheap popularity points -- well trump may be gone in a week, but his voters won't leave. this just reinforces mistru…

people did vote they way they wanted

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#233

Post by yetanother5 »

mattsears wrote: post #96
sacks2k wrote: post #26

The people cheering this on will not be protected when the mob comes for you. We live in a digital age. If having the wrong opinion means you can get your bank accounts and all Internet presence removed from you, it's not any different than living under a fascist government.

There's a big difference in wrong opinion and inciting violence. This isn't the government doing this. This is private companies taking action against the spread hate and lies. These are companies I want to do business with.

Yet antifa are allowed on Twitter who regularly advocate for violence against Trump supporters.

It’s politically motivated and one sided censorship

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#234

Post by eejit_compiler »

ohnohell wrote: post #142
perardi wrote: post #132

Freedom of speech, you cry. Well, OK, this is freedom of speech…for Stripe. They don’t like what Trump has done. They are a private company. It’s their ball. They can take it home whenever they want to. Speech has consequences, and if you foment a hostile takeover of Congress, you pay your price.

This argument went out the window when Amazon started infrastructure bans. "Build your own..." What? Internet? Country?

Amazon aren't the only provider of hosting services, even if they are one of the largest. It's entirely doable to shift providers, even in the face of censorship - The Pirate Bay is one long-running example of this.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#235

Post by dragonwriter »

sircastor wrote: post #177
dataflow wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stripe and Twitter are pretty clearly the latter. They might be the latter, but I wouldn't consider it obvious. Regarding social media, we've gotten to the point where even US Visa applications ask for social media handles (and I understand they consider it as a negative datum if you don't provide one). And we're also at the point where some companies won't provide you with respectable service unless you @ them on…

Wasn't there a sort-of reverse issue a year or two ago, when the President was blocking people on twitter and a court ruled that he was violating their 1st amendment rights? Is it exclusively because of his office? Could it be construed the other direction?

> Is it exclusively because of his office?

Because of his office and the manner of use, yes, explicitly, under the limited public forum doctrine.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#236

Post by [deleted] »

awat wrote: post #64

Not to be reductionist but I don’t see this as a totalitarian issue. This is a free market decision. $Company decides to sever ties with another organization. That choice can be good, bad, reactive, overreactive, misguided, etc but it’s still a market participant choice. Market remains open for other market participants to make other choices.

[deleted]

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#237

Post by insert_coin »

crx07 wrote: post #128
awat wrote: post #64

Not to be reductionist but I don’t see this as a totalitarian issue. This is a free market decision. $Company decides to sever ties with another organization. That choice can be good, bad, reactive, overreactive, misguided, etc but it’s still a market participant choice. Market remains open for other market participants to make other choices.

On one hand it feels completely appropriate and even deserved. On the other, yes, this is unfortunately a path to a very serious totalitarian issue. Situations like this one underscore the future importance of cryptocurrencies. Without an uncensorable currency, any political adversary -- especially an incumbent -- can just coerce payment processors into blocking payments to their opponents through threats of imprison…

> Without an uncensorable currency, any political adversary -- especially an incumbent -- can just coerce payment processors into blocking payments to their opponents through threats of imprisonment or violence against a handful of executives.

That has always happened, Visa/Mastercard have been used that way since forever. The Swift system is designed to exercise financial control. Paypal bans anyone for merely looking suspicious to them.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#238

Post by greatgirl »

logicslave wrote: post #166
sacks2k wrote: post #26

The people cheering this on will not be protected when the mob comes for you. We live in a digital age. If having the wrong opinion means you can get your bank accounts and all Internet presence removed from you, it's not any different than living under a fascist government.

The mob is coming. People are completely underestimating what can happen. History is riddled with stories that start just like this.

Read what you just wrote 3 or 4 times over. Who is the mob? Stripe? A billion dollar company who has one small board of directors who made this decision?

What am I underestimating? The power of a company to deprive people of their income? Oh, you mean every single company on earth?

History is riddled with stories that start just like this? Yes, history has one example of a story that starts with a fascist mob invading the government, and then the liberal mob banned them and then... wait a second that's not how the story went.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#239

Post by tclancy »

ryanSrich wrote: post #180
djakaitis wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are missing the point of my question. I’m pointing out that not all opinions should be protected equally. Opinions of hate or violence are bad for society. I don’t understand why the suppression of those things is considered totalitarian? Especially when it comes from private enterprise.

> Opinions of hate or violence are bad for society The issue is making this distinction. You’re out of your mind if you want corporations to make that for you.

The problem here, and I am not disagreeing with you or blaming you for this, is the Republican Party spent four decades telling us ceding control of things to the marketplace and private industry was going to make the world better. That they are now hoist by their own petard is something for a better person than me to not laugh at.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#240

Post by johndevor »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand. The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protecte…

Freedom of speech was created when there were many distributed newspapers. If one newspaper decided not to publish your piece, you could go to another. There was not a cabal of newspapers that controlled 99% of information distribution, like do Twitter, Facebook, and Google. This is not something the founders ever could have foreseen.

For all intents and purposes, freedom of speech has flatlined in America. What will bring it back?

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