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Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

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Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#231

Post by anigbrowl »

BurningFrog wrote: post #207

Of course you can organize serious crimes on Parler. But that's also true of telephony, postal letters and in person conversations. Uncountable murders have been organized through those channels! Does that mean those means of communication should also at least be monitored, and maybe banned outright? If not, what is the difference?

The difference is network effects; the other examples you mentioned all involve communications between individuals or small groups. I'm pretty sure this has been explained to you before.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#232

Post by nackerhewz »

throw0101a wrote: post #163
chroem- wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're proposing to remove a very large, very alienated group's last public channel to express themselves peacefully. This risks further escalation. This is compounded with the stark contrast to how the protests were handled this summer.

You have to draw a line somewhere: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance * 5 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24082241

Popper's paradox of tolerance is flawed reasoning IMO. Who decides what is tolerant and what is not?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%...

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#233

Post by read_if_gay_ »

lovecg wrote: post #197
hilyen wrote: post #109

People don’t seem to understand, censorship is a double edged sword. You never know who will be in charge years from now and will abuse those very same good intentioned laws & we end up a police state.

I agree. It would be very dangerous if people in charge, say, prohibited Apple (a private company) from removing Parler. Thankfully, the 1st amendment is still in power and Apple is free to express itself as it sees fit.

You're arguing as if there were no precedent for this, but there already are bounds to how Apple can "express itself". They cannot refuse to serve people of a certain race for example. So are we in a dangerous place now, or should Apple be allowed to exclude people by race?

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#234

Post by gmac »

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

> Their legal cases are rejected.

Not-an-American here. When their cases seek to disenfranchise large swathes of voters based on zero evidence, what’s the alternative?

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#235

Post by obiefernandez »

caconym_ wrote: post #191
nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

What is “the other route”? They are being deplatformed because their speech is violent and damaging—in many cases it’s literal incitement to violence. Their legal cases are being rejected because they have no legal merit. The mainstream media refuse to take them seriously because they have again and again shown themselves to be bad faith actors, peddlers of unsubstantiated conspiracy, outright liars, and so on. I don…

This is a great point that is not made often enough. The logical conclusion is that the de-platformed actors get mad enough that they start lashing out in criminal ways, doing stuff that gets them locked up or killed, or otherwise "de-platformed" in real life. There's some short term pain, but ultimately society has a net win.

Convince me I'm wrong...

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#236

Post by cbnotfromthere »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #127
zionic wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m so done with all of this. It’s time to break them up. Who is “them”? All of them.

Especially the media channels - from Fox downwards. Make lying to the public a criminal offence. Without lies these channels are nothing.

I see your dedication to the 1st amendment is exemplary.

Out of sheer curiosity, who decides what's a lie?

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#237

Post by o_p »

lovecg wrote: post #186
o_p wrote: post #117

Imagine owning a phone that can only get content approved by Apple and can cancel you for any arbitrary reason. Its like buying a radio that can only listen to democrats approved stations, its ridiculous and yet the fanboys will defend their shitty practices no matter what

You can... buy a different phone?

Or the goverment could defend me from corporations leveraging their power against consumers?. When companies are clearly having so much power they are influencing media and political opinion its not just their private property like the backyard of a house

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#238

Post by mullingitover »

WindyLakeReturn wrote: post #178
Pxtl wrote: post #22

There's an amusing irony in the downvotes in this thread. The champions of free-speech angry that Apple might ban a platform for speech that ultimately led to an attempted insurrection? These champions of free speech seem to be agressively trying to silence anybody happy about this news.

> that ultimately led to This seems a very dangerous line of reasoning. For example, I wonder how many violent crimes alcohol ultimately led to. How many violent crimes Facebook ultimately led to. How many violent crimes encryption ultimately led to. In a court of law, there is a distinction drawn between different events leading up to a crime, with a great deal of thought put into which of those events can be held r…

The difference here will be the whether Parler was negligent. If they had calls for violence on their platform that were reported to them, and their community moderation team was so short-staffed that they didn't act on them, Parler could have culpability.

Facebook, et al have moderation mechanisms that can probably withstand scrutiny, but Parler sounds like an extremely lean operation that the discovery process may reveal to have negligently failed to act on information that led to death. It's not about people disliking their political speech, it's about them ignoring things they had a responsibility to act on.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#239

Post by gnusty_gnurc »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #168
factorialboy wrote: post #91

If you are a liberal / progressive and your outlook is medium to long-term, this is the last thing you want Apple to do. Denying people their voice makes them more dangerous. Let's give them a means to vent out / express themselves. Violent subgroups / individuals can be addressed, but please don't deny the __entire__ opposition their voice. The last thing you want is for the conservative movement to be hosted on a C…

You're taking the empathetic path and I wish more people did as well. I think the past 4 years were deeply traumatic for most of the progressive left. They control these institutions and they want to make damn sure Donald Trump never happens again.

> They control these institutions and they want to make damn sure Donald Trump never happens again.

Oddly enough Trump was all but a symptom of a system that's completely hollowed out and unable to work for the Trump crowd.

Not only does the system not work for Trump ppl - it effectively represents no one.

So you end up with this pathetic ping-pong between major parties, trying to declaring their "mandate" after each election. The truth is that a sliver of swing voters is switching between absolute fools and empty suits.

Biden is The System incarnate - he created the void that was begging for Trump and it'll be interesting to see what happens next.

Instead of trying to understand how the Trump crowd is ailing and respond to their requests for help and recognition no matter how distorted and seemingly vulgar/uncivilized/etc., we had 4 years of hysteric catastrophizing, outright conspiracy theories(like Russia-gate) and obstruction.

Let's remind everyone that Hillary participated in the whole "switch the electors", "he's an illegitimate president" talk.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#240

Post by [deleted] »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #27
dzeanah wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope this is sarcasm.

Parler is incapable and unwilling to moderate nazis, white supremacists and terrorists. Worse, they thrive on those users. First they came for the nazis, and I didn't say anything because, well, fuck nazis. Then end.

[deleted]
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