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USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

judiciary.uk

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Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#231

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

Sharlin wrote: post #225
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Frankly I don't understand why the UK continues to maintain an extradition treaty with a country which clearly has a poor record on human rights and fails to maintain a justice system that meets the UN's Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners. It's because the US is a powerful ally and the UK does not want to displease them. The British call this their "special relation" to the Americans. I don't kn…

Probably ”useful idiots”.

Alternatively:

* 51st State

* Airstrip One

* The next market for chlorinated chicken

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#232

Post by cannabis_sam »

lol768 wrote: post #11

Reading the judgement the key points are on pages 116 onwards and the extradition is denied under section 91(3) of the EA 2003 which reads: > The condition is that the physical or mental condition of the person is such that it would be unjust or oppressive to extradite him. The judge states: > it is my judgment that there is a real risk that he will be kept in the near isolated conditions imposed by the harshest SAMs…

Interestingly, the BBC asked the question: “is HMP Belmarsh the British Guantanamo Bay?” [0]

By the transitive properties of anglo-american fascist thought, does that make the US prison system better or worse than the US extrajudicial prison in Cuba??

[0] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3714864.stm

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#233

Post by Cthulhu_ »

mrkramer wrote: post #149
hestefisk wrote: post #128

Practically speaking a good outcome for Assange, but a bad outcome for our rights to free speech and free reporting in a liberal democracy. The US have killed millions in the Middle East since 9/11, yet no one is ever held to account for their brutal war crimes. Blair, Bush, Rumsfeld and their associates should be the ones prosecuted, not Assange.

European colonial empires killed millions as well and faced no prosecution. Never forget what Hitler said; he said that concentration camps were not his idea instead he learnt about it from reading about British concentration camps during the Second Boer War in which thousands of Boers died.

And the inspiration for the gas chambers came from US border posts with Mexico, where anyone coming in from Mexico had to have their clothes fumigated with Zyklon-B and themselves bathed in gasoline (https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=517617...).

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#234

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

konjin wrote: post #157
erfgh wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

whataboutism is a logical fallacy.

Calling out logical fallacies is a logical fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy It comes from not understanding the difference between logical entailment and logical equivalence when given a set of premises and a conclusion. I'd've hoped programmers would have taken enough discrete maths to know this.

> I'd've hoped programmers would have taken enough discrete maths to know this.

It’s not that I haven’t - but I’m 8 years out of uni and have completely forgotten how to apply Modus tollens and I suspect I’m not alone.

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#235

Post by Cthulhu_ »

erfgh wrote: post #135
hestefisk wrote: post #128

Practically speaking a good outcome for Assange, but a bad outcome for our rights to free speech and free reporting in a liberal democracy. The US have killed millions in the Middle East since 9/11, yet no one is ever held to account for their brutal war crimes. Blair, Bush, Rumsfeld and their associates should be the ones prosecuted, not Assange.

whataboutism is a logical fallacy.

Referencing the US war crimes that Assange helped expose is important though. I'm not denying Assange committed crimes by leaking or helping to leak secret documents, but it was the moral thing to do to expose war crimes that would otherwise be (and which are being) covered up.

In this case, the UK should not only consider the extradition request itself, but how they stand with regards to the US and their war crimes. And when it comes to war crimes, for the UK to be silent is to be complicit.

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#236

Post by djsumdog »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #167
vidarh wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an awful ruling overall, from what I can tell from skimming it. It's great Assange won, but this ruling is not at all support for freedom of expression. This is the one part the judge agreed with the defense on as far as I can tell: > 363. I find that the mental condition of Mr. Assange is such that it would be oppressive to extradite him to the United States of America. For anyone not suffering from severe ment…

Yes, the fact that the extradition wasn't rejected on press freedom grounds makes me think maybe it's just a way for the judge to shake it off so that it's not HER who goes down in history books as to have made the decision to extradite. But having sided with the U.S. on pretty much all of the counts concerning press freedom, an appeals court may well 'find' that the heath condition is not enough. I REALLY hope am wr…

There is no real right to appeal in the UK. It's very unlikely there would be an appeal.

UK also doesn't really have freedom of speech or press in any meaningful way. I'm not surprised it failed on those grounds.

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#237

Post by HotHotLava »

gsnedders wrote: post #185
AsyncAwait wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the fact that the extradition wasn't rejected on press freedom grounds makes me think maybe it's just a way for the judge to shake it off so that it's not HER who goes down in history books as to have made the decision to extradite. But having sided with the U.S. on pretty much all of the counts concerning press freedom, an appeals court may well 'find' that the heath condition is not enough. I REALLY hope am wr…

> But having sided with the U.S. on pretty much all of the counts concerning press freedom, an appeals court may well 'find' that the heath condition is not enough. It is highly likely that the High Court will be asked to re-examine pretty much the whole judgment; it's highly unlikely that the defence won't question the holdings that they lost. (It is also pretty likely that this will then be appealed to the Supreme…

If this case is indeed politically motivated, one would expect the US to lose interest on January 21 and drop the case instead of appealing to the Supreme Court.

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#238

Post by jcbrand »

willis936 wrote: post #188
jonny383 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I suppose anyone with a journalism degree isn't a journalist because they were a student until they started working?

If they haven’t investigated and written in search of the truth, they are not journalists. Just as I wasn’t an engineer until I started designing and making things.

Interesting to see how programmers have turned into "engineers" the last decade or so.

Do you have an engineering degree?

Used to be that you'd have to be registered as a professional engineer before calling yourself one.

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#239

Post by lmg643 »

baybal2 wrote: post #194
k1m wrote: post #3

Kevin Gosztola: "The United States government's mass incarceration system just lost them their case against WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange" - https://twitter.com/kgosztola/status/1346048531249958914 Matt Kennard, investigative journalist: "Brilliant news, but be in no doubt. This ruling is utterly chilling for investigative journalism. Baraitser sided with US prosecutors on pretty much all of their arguments. It wa…

> "Brilliant news, but be in no doubt. This ruling is utterly chilling for investigative journalism. Baraitser sided with US prosecutors on pretty much all of their arguments. It was the barbaric nature of the US penal system that saved Assange." A barbarical nature of US penal system it is, but they did not even note a prima fascie political nature of the prosecution when the defence was slashing it left, and right.…

Are we sure that Assange is better off in the UK? Reports from other sources suggest he is being kept in terrible conditions in UK as well.

https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/julian-assange-is-kept-u...

>> "Each day Julian is woken at 5 am, handcuffed, put in holding cells, stripped naked, and x-rayed. He is transported 1.5 hours each way in what feels like a vertical coffin in a claustrophobic van,” Morris said.

>> The lawyer pointed out that during the criminal hearings Assange is kept in a glass box at the back of court from where he cannot his lawyers properly.

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#240

Post by baud147258 »

k1m wrote: post #3

Kevin Gosztola: "The United States government's mass incarceration system just lost them their case against WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange" - https://twitter.com/kgosztola/status/1346048531249958914 Matt Kennard, investigative journalist: "Brilliant news, but be in no doubt. This ruling is utterly chilling for investigative journalism. Baraitser sided with US prosecutors on pretty much all of their arguments. It wa…

Are you really calling what Assange did "investigative journalism"?
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