My Experience at Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: My Experience at Apple

#231

Post by andy_ppp » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

SkyPuncher wrote: post #153

ma2rten wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got an offer from Apple. The hiring manager told me "You worked at a startup before, you'll have no problem working overtime". I didn't end up taking the offer.

I work at a startup right now and can count the number of times I've had to work overtime with a null-pointer - 0. Well run startups can still compete by making smart, focused decisions.

I completely agree, sure if you’re into a feature and on a roll in a startup keep going but if you’ve reached a good point to stop no need to cause yourself stress!

Re: My Experience at Apple

#232

Post by someonehere » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

I worked for Apple retail in San Francisco. Being an early retail employee in the Bay Area, we had very close ties to Cupertino. I worked when Steve was still alive.

* Retail management in my store ruled by fear. I heard from other stores across the US this was the same as well. * Promotions were handed out to those who kissed ass the hardest. Even if they were unqualified or cheated on promotion exams, if they brown nosed enough they got promoted. * The goal for every retail employee was to eventually make it to Cupertino and work for the corporate side of things. Either Genius support or logistics in Elk Grove. * Those who I knew who made it to Cupertino shared similar experience to the author’s post.

Apple comes off as a happy family friendly company, when in reality behind the scenes it’s a rule by fear culture.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#233

Post by oblio » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:52 PM UTC

tdhz77 wrote: post #27

I must try and understand my bias towards certain tech companies. When somebody says something bad about Facebook I instantly believe, but for some reason I had to really dig into this Apple engineer and it took me longer to believe them. Truth is harder to discern than I had thought.

I've been bashing Apple about BatteryGate a few times. You know, where they hid information from their customers in a way that benefitted their sales. They were sued and they settled. Which is basically admitting guilt, as these lawsuits are never lost by corporations (they either drag them out forever or if there too afraid of what losing implies, they settle).

Each time I'm downvoted.

The Apple Shiny Aluminum Corporate Distortion Field.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#234

Post by coldtea » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:52 PM UTC

Now, imagine the same behavior from bosses, but also being paid way less, working to the bone, and wearing diapers because bathroom breaks are frowned upon.

Welcome to Amazon warehouse work...

Re: My Experience at Apple

#235

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:52 PM UTC

jariel wrote: post #187

bredren wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that is what you took from my post, you’re mistaken. People should not be emotionally abusive. But they are. They attain positions of power. Through reflection you may come to realize they are among people you consider friends or family. You can’t “fix” them, but you can learn how to handle or avoid them. Sometimes, if a person looks inward and into their past they will find a pattern of people who have taken adva…

Well you did specifically say 'assert their own boundaries'. That's victim blaming to the extent there is nothing someone can do to assert themselves other than basically leaving.

[deleted]

Re: My Experience at Apple

#236

Post by alpb » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:52 PM UTC

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #80

For anyone experiencing workplace harassment, this article is a great example of what not to do. Instead, document everything happening to you with evidence, speak with HR about incidents as they arise, and if they don't take action, seek legal counsel. Doing anything else will paint you in a bad light.

You’re absolutely correct but missing out on a major point. If you are an immigrant, especially on a soon-expiring visa, especially from a country with export restrictions (I’m guessing Iran), you are unlikely to pursue a legal battle. Most likely you won’t even be able to attend to any court hearings on time.

This is also why many immigrants on H1b and OPT visas at FAANGM companies (often their first job) bow down to abuse, get their work done, and do their time until they receive a Green Card so they can freely roam the job market.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#237

Post by praptak » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #67

praptak wrote: post #18

In such situations always gather evidence and hire a lawyer. HR are there to protect the interest of the company, you need someone that you employ to protect your interest.

Or in Europe etc, join a/the union. The union least has lawyers experienced in this kind of trouble, and they are cheap/free to use for members.

I don't believe any of the FAANG companies have unions, not even in Europe.

This is still good advice though - unions will probably help you even as a non-member.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#238

Post by justpoolitics » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

I feel sorry for anyone who has not had many years of corporate experience who enters a situation like this.

Toxic survival politics at a big tech company are a triple black diamond ski slope and if you are just learning to ski, you will get murdered by making a single mistake.

Knowing what I know now, human beings can behave in shockingly awful ways and politics can become extremely distorted in these environments.

The only way to survive a situation like this is to not react emotionally and to take an extremely neutral and objective approach. Do not become a threat or a problem, keep your opinions to yourself, carefully observe the Personalities and structure and understand who they are and why they are acting this way.

Do not engage in gossip or any negativity. Do not complain or criticize or raise questions.

You do not know the pressures, history or forces causing the behavior of your management and if you become the problem you are cooked.

I experienced a toxic situation myself recently, it caused me to do a lot of reading and research.

My peers who remained positive and optimistic and polite and non threatening or competitive survived the environment fine. They made a mental decision to be positive.

If you find yourself in this persons situation you had better keep your mouth shut until you can find a new place to go or you will get killed off by your peers and your management.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#239

Post by Apocryphon » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #228

meekrohprocess wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so. I've worked at other FAANG companies which had these sorts of posts written about them, and I've witnessed plenty of situations that I would call "abusive". But what I read in this article was beyond the pale. I never felt like anybody adjacent to any of my roles might have cause to fear for their physical safety. Reviews were used as political tools and occasional sources of psychological abuse, su…

> But what I read in this article was beyond the pale. Yes, but while I believe it happened just like that, it's too beyond the pale to be representative of Apple at large. Looks like a particularly, close knit toxic team + gaslighting above levels about the new recruit.

It's hard to say, because Apple is a huge corporation. It would be wrong for the takeaway to be "all of Apple is like this." But it should call into question "how much of Apple is like this?" and "how many more stories are there like this?" because I guarantee you that this author is not the only one who has experienced this at Apple, and there may be elements of its secrecy-obsessed, top-down culture that are common factors which contribute to it.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#240

Post by carvantes » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 8:54 PM UTC

ddevault wrote: post #225

carvantes wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the allure of FAANG for residents besides the money. The thing is, for us H1B workers, we have very limited options. And these big companies have the best track record in processing GC for us. Unless these regulations got changed, and give smaller companies more chances. Given how powerful big companies are, I probably wouldn't be surprised if they also lobbied regulations against small companies h…

I'm not an immigrant, so I don't have your perspective. But I wonder the same about H1B's: I don't understand the allure of the United States (besides the money?). Our industry is horrible to its H1B's, H1B exploitation is rampant and disgusting. FAANG hires them so that they can exploit them as cheap labor that can't risk leaving. Why not move somewhere else if you want to work abroad? I can think of so many better…

Thats the thing, most of us immigrant does not come from well-off countries. We couldn't just book a ticket and get visa to work in , say Canada or Japan. Our passport power is shit. All things considered US is still the most welcoming for most of us who want to improve our life. Where I come from, I can got thrown into jail if they found my religious non-affiliation, combined with my racial identity. Not sure for other immigrants, but for me, companies literally have execution power over my trajectory of my life.