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World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

theguardian.com

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Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#231

Post by 52-6F-62 »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #216
52-6F-62 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "plants have senses rebuttal" as you put it is only an illustration that exposes the absurdity of the whole attachment of ethics to consumption of any form in and of itself. The only logical endpoint is that humans should just off themselves so we don't participate past one cycle of reabsorption into the Earth's environment. One way or another, everything is going to die and be consumed by another living organism…

> The only logical endpoint is that humans should just off themselves so we don't participate past one cycle of reabsorption into the Earth's environment. That would obliterate all future human happiness. It doesn't stand up even under a cold utilitarian conception of morality.

I thought the whole premise was that we needed to limit the suffering of other living things that aren't humans at all costs, not about human happiness.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#232

Post by Shebanator »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #176
stickfigure wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started this year with a couple dozen chickens, a motley crew of heritage breeds. Our (formerly 3) roosters definitely started showing aggression before 6 months. Furthermore, the repeated mounting of the hens is pretty abusive - chicken sex, I'm sorry to say, is pretty much rape. That said, as you noted, on an industrial scale you would separate the roosters. But it's not clear that there's any market at all for r…

I'm surprised you noticed the aggression before 6 months. It's actually hard to even identify roosters as roosters in the first few months. They don't develop their physical traits fully for some time. Re: birds and rape, wait til you see ducks... I should note that there are roosters and then there are roosters. We had a really amazing one, a well bred barred rock who was a real gentleman. They have an important rol…

Hiding under a passing car sounds rather dangerous. Did you mean parked? :-)

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#233

Post by slothtrop »

corytheboyd wrote: post #220
slothtrop wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll rescind it the day I see a vegan suggest there is such a thing as ethical meat/egg consumption. It will never happen.

People are downvoting you because you are making blanket generalizations that don’t meaningfully add to the conversation, and then doubling down on them when challenged. I thought maybe you would like to know what’s happening, but if it’s not wanted sorry to have potentially upset you further.

I made one generalization. I'll stand behind it. I hoped to see it provoke contradiction.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#234

Post by nromiun »

cute_boi wrote: post #199
nromiun wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe vegans do that but most vegetarians I know of don't eat meat for one simple reason: they are disgusted by it. Vegetarians don't really care about the ethics of it. In fact they are fine with animal based products, like milk.

You are in fact make a generalization and thats fair here. But I must so you are little incorrect here. You have clearly not seen how world lies, how society lies. So let me explain it to you. First when you grow you drink mom's milk and you are under impression drinking milk is good for health which indeed is. So people start consuming milk everywhere. And there are advertisements which shows happy cows, chocolates…

I was speaking from my own experience. Many of my family members are vegetarians and some of them are in the milk business (small scale). Pretty much everyone knows that the cow's milk should go to the calves. Sure almost all companies lie in their ads but people aren't as stupid as some would think. Some people are under the impression that they are into some great secret of the world (about how cows are handled in the milk business). But the reality is that most people know about it but don't care.

So to reiterate the number one reason most people (that I know of) become vegetarians because they are disgusted by meat. I wish there was some great vision to it but there isn't.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#235

Post by LurkerAtTheGate »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #212
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised you noticed the aggression before 6 months. It's actually hard to even identify roosters as roosters in the first few months. They don't develop their physical traits fully for some time. Re: birds and rape, wait til you see ducks... I should note that there are roosters and then there are roosters. We had a really amazing one, a well bred barred rock who was a real gentleman. They have an important rol…

Also, what's to stop us from breeding fat and delicious roosters? It's amazing what selective breeding can accomplish in a few generations, especially with marker assisted selection. Evolution has its own traits "it" has selected for in roosters, but we could easily have our own.

Fat & delicious roosters are called 'capons' - they're neutered & raised for meat, though a bit of a luxury food.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#236

Post by cmrdporcupine »

Shebanator wrote: post #232
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised you noticed the aggression before 6 months. It's actually hard to even identify roosters as roosters in the first few months. They don't develop their physical traits fully for some time. Re: birds and rape, wait til you see ducks... I should note that there are roosters and then there are roosters. We had a really amazing one, a well bred barred rock who was a real gentleman. They have an important rol…

Hiding under a passing car sounds rather dangerous. Did you mean parked? :-)

The car was passing but it was this nice couple that slowed down and pulled over when they saw the fox taking bites out of our bird. Jacques took that opportunity to hide under their car. We were frantically hunting for our scattered hens when they came up the driveway asking if we were missing a bird.

We kept the poor guy going for a few weeks on antibiotics until he succumbed. Turns out foxes carry lethal bacteria in their mouths. They can bite things without finishing them off, and then come back later and find the animal again after it succumbs to infection. :-(

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#237

Post by lkbm »

nitrogen wrote: post #224
kaycebasques wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a real vegan (not a meme about vegans that you saw from meat eaters) I can confidently tell you that "animals are alive and they have feelings and senses, we abuse them for food" is not my biggest line of defense. My biggest lines of defense are: * Dr. Kim Williams, former president of the American College of Cardiology, said "there are two kinds of cardiologists, vegans, and those who haven't read the data" * Ani…

meat only provides 18% of our calories But what percentage of our protein?

I'm not finding a lot of people answering this question from a cursory search, but I found one source saying 33% globally[0]. (This may include eggs and dairy.)

Personally, I eat more protein than I did when I ate meat, though to be fair I still eat eggs. It's not hard at all to get adequate protein.

[0] https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/worlds-main-sources-protein...

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#238

Post by axepeartree »

bayindirh wrote: post #125
JacobSuperslav wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker News, where technology > empathy

I value ethics and empathy deeply but, I don't understand vegans and vegetarians. Their biggest line of defense is "animals are alive and they have feelings and senses, we abuse them for food". That's sadly right. And they implicitly say that "eating plants are OK because, plants are not animals and they're just happen to grow. They don't feel, they don't understand". On the contrary, there's a growing mountain of re…

Sentience is what matters. Comparing animals (like cows) with plants is absurd.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#239

Post by kaycebasques »

nitrogen wrote: post #224
kaycebasques wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a real vegan (not a meme about vegans that you saw from meat eaters) I can confidently tell you that "animals are alive and they have feelings and senses, we abuse them for food" is not my biggest line of defense. My biggest lines of defense are: * Dr. Kim Williams, former president of the American College of Cardiology, said "there are two kinds of cardiologists, vegans, and those who haven't read the data" * Ani…

meat only provides 18% of our calories But what percentage of our protein?

I don't know but I think I can anticipate your concern. It's very viable to meet your protein needs on a vegan diet. That stuff about vegans not being able to get complete proteins is meat industry propaganda. Furthermore, the World Health Organization said that only 10 to 15% of daily calories need to come from protein. I believe I've also read that there's no proven benefit to all of the extra protein that Americans eat daily (I haven't looked into that claim in-depth, though).

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#240

Post by romanoderoma »

Bjartr wrote: post #80
romanoderoma wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, it's 180,000 tons. Which would still feed 18,000,000 million people in Africa for a year.

Feeding food insecure (and worse) people around the world is very, very rarely about food quantity and is almost always about the logistics of getting food from where it exists in excess to where it is lacking. Fuel and labor costs dominate the equation.

As someone who grew up in the country where my family (that was kinda poor when I was born) bred the animals we ate, I remember that businesses selling eggs also sold male chicks to the local farmers and only kept the females to make eggs

We had a few chickens who layed eggs and we ate the rest of them

My grandparents bought male chicks from said businesses because the ones hatching from the eggs were not enough to sustain a quite large family

You had to go there to buy them, so I don't think it was very costly

The logistics of killing the males and shipping the meat to companies making animal food is not more convenient (IMO) unless animal food is more profitable than human food, I don't know about it, but I hope it's not the case and it's not the main motivation behind it.

The point of not killing the male chicks I imagine is to show kindness towards animals, selling them (or selling the male eggs) to someone who could make food out of it, I think should be considered equally good, if not more.

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