Live data from Hacker News

Servo’s new home

blog.servo.org

231–240 of 326 posts

Re: Servo’s new home

#231
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, please don't be a jerk in HN comments. If you know more than others, that's great, but the thing to do is to share some of what you know so the rest of us can learn something. If you don't want to do that, not posting anything is always an option. But please don't post unsubstantive comments and especially not nasty unsubstantive comments. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I welcome you to go read the rest of my posts in this thread and get back to me on whether or not my posts are substantive, thanks!

I didn't mean that all of your posts were that way, only some of them.

Can I try my luck at persuading you a little? The reason we moderate like this is not because of morality or taste. It's because of the dynamics of a community of HN's size. The goal is simply to have a community that doesn't suck. That is in all our interests, including yours, as you're participating here.

There are other internet communities, smaller and more cohesive ones, and usually with a specific technical focus, that have a culture of shaming people for being wrong or knowing less. Arguably this can help to keep signal/noise ratio high by punishing low-quality, low-effort posts, demanding that people do their homework first, and so on. Some of these communities have functioned pretty well for many years.

But it's not an option for HN—this community is too large and incohesive. If we were to allow it, such tactics would soon spread, not in service of technical accuracy, signal/noise ratio, or anything like that, but just general douchery. Ignorant users would see knowledgeable users treating others that way and would follow the worst part of their example—not the becoming-knowledgeable part (that would require an effort!) — just the being-a-jerk part.

Then we'd see an exodus of users who don't want to be surrounded by that kind of thing. Then general douchery would comprise a higher percentage of what remained, making the next exodus even bigger. For a community like HN, this is how you get catastrophic decline.

In order to keep HN worth participating in, we have to have a culture that is on the good side of these nonlinear effects—i.e. we need interactions that raise overall quality rather than damaging it. Situations when a user posts something wrong or ignorant are a classic example. Correcting misinformation is good, but some ways of doing it harm the ecosystem while others benefit it. You have to consider not only the local (comment-to-comment) interaction but the systemic effect of such interactions as they compound.

That's why, in situations like this, we ask people who know more to share some of what they know, so others can learn. That way you're not just executing a local destroy operation on some mistake, you're helping to raise the level of knowledge of the community and the quality of the thread. These actions have systemically beneficial effects instead of toxic ones. If you (i.e. we all) do that repeatedly, you end up with a community that you actually want to be part of.

Re: Servo’s new home

#232
post #210

This is encouraging. An Electron competitor would be really nice. I'd be especially interested in an Electron-but-for-Python, along the lines of PythonWebkit: https://www.gnu.org/software/pythonwebkit/

The rust electron competitor is already here https://tauri.studio/en/

Interesting project as they seem to be tackling the same problem as the Flutter team whom started with mobile and are steadily working their way up the stack.

Though it should be said repurposing a desktop first framework for a mobile paradigm is much harder than the inverse.

Cheers for this. Definitely keeping tabs on the project.

Re: Servo’s new home

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Mozilla were serious about Firefox and privacy, they'd move it to the Foundation, allow direct donations, remove all the Googleware, Pocket and whatever else they unnecessarily shoved into Firefox + all the problems you stated. I'm not going to consider affirming bad leadership by giving them money. Mozilla Corp employees aren't locked into anything (unless they signed really shitty contracts). They can leave and…

what googleware is in Firefox, and what impact does pocket have on your privacy?

Google is the default search engine of a "privacy aware" browser. It uses Google Safe browsing which, from what I understand, is practically an embedded call home to Google for each new domain you visit. For quite a while they were using Google as the default location provider.

Pocket was an unnecessary acquisition that wasted money for an opt-out solution to... I don't even know what problem. The money spent on acquiring it could've gone into more developers, technical writers, testers, etc. Clickz (or however it's written) was also an unnecessary fail investment.

Re: Servo’s new home

#234
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that from both of these comments it implies you have a concern about the future and the stability of Firefox as both an open source project, and it's role in preventing a browser monoculture. Setting aside concerns about leadership, because IMO it's time for most of the current leadership to retire and make space for more innovative folks, Mozilla needs two things to preserve Firefox and Gecko, money and…

I don't see any irony there; people care about firefox, and there is literally no way to donate money to develop firefox. Maybe donating to the foundation sorta indirectly helps firefox, but a reasonable person could easily view them as mostly unrelated.

Sure, you can donate money to develop Firefox, but it's not a core part of Mozilla's business model to support that. Instead you would need to track down an OSS developer that is either an active contributor, or who is willing to work on Firefox, and then sponsor their work through a number of different contributor pathways. There are Github sponsorships, direct funding, or any of the options here - https://itsfoss.com/open-source-funding-platforms/

It's not easy because supporting open source contributors is hard, and Mozilla is trying to keep their staff focused on corporate and foundation priorities.

Even if users could directly donate money to develop Firefox, the implication is that any such donations should only be used for Firefox development, when in practice, shipping a modern browser in a way that is competitive requires an enormous amount of non-"Firefox" related work (safe browsing, sync, telemetry, marketing ,release engineering work, advocacy, documentation, etc, etc, etc). Earmarking donations for engineering work is kind of silly in the context of an OSS project designed to compete with some of the largest juggernauts in the industry.

Re: Servo’s new home

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked for a list of projects currently embedding Servo, or planning to, but didn't find one. Is any software embedding it now?

Servo is not production ready yet. We don't even know how may years it will take for 1.0. So no software would use it for now.

Plenty of pre-production software is built with pre-production dependencies.

Does it not work for a useful subset of HTML/CSS?

Re: Servo’s new home

#237

We've been cagey about this over the months since the Servo team at Mozilla was disbanded, since there were various moving pieces that needed to fall into place. We're excited about the possibility for Servo to continue growing and evolving in its new home, though!

yes

Re: Servo’s new home

#238

While this is great news on one hand, on the other hand, how could Mozilla manage to lose its browser engine project ? If a web browser company can't even keep its browser engine project, what is really Mozilla working on these days ?

A VPN service, apparently. https://vpn.mozilla.org

Reselling Mullvad, last I heard... Has that changed?

Re: Servo’s new home

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what googleware is in Firefox, and what impact does pocket have on your privacy?

Google is the default search engine of a "privacy aware" browser. It uses Google Safe browsing which, from what I understand, is practically an embedded call home to Google for each new domain you visit. For quite a while they were using Google as the default location provider. Pocket was an unnecessary acquisition that wasted money for an opt-out solution to... I don't even know what problem. The money spent on acqu…

So pocket in no way detracts from your privacy. It's an very useful feature to many people. It's fine if you don't like it, but to use the privacy argument against it is incredibly disingenuous.

Edit: Also, you understand incorrectly about safe browsing. It does its checks locally.

Re: Servo’s new home

#240

I wish servo would adopt a more permissive license, something like MIT or BSD instead of MPL. I think that existing projects like chromium have a competitive advantage because they have permissive licenses. If the community around servo would like to see more projects like electron built around servo they should consider it.

MPL is a perfectly fine license. It has most of the benefits of permissive licenses (non-virality, worry-free integration with proprietary code) with most of the benefits of copyleft licenses also (changes to the library itself must be public). I fail to see what benefits a more permissive license would bring.

I have read this claim many times and yet to see any empirical evidence to back it up. If this license really hit the “sweet spot" between GPL and MIT/BSD then why haven't other projects outside of Mozilla funded projects adopted it. I think the reality is just the opposite. It neither gives the impression to contributors that their contributions are "protected" nor does it give lisensees the comfort that they will not accidentally run afoul of it's terms.
Post reply on HN