Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not when your recklessness threatens my life and the lives of my elderly parents.
Your choices and decisions are what threatens your life. If you don't want to be exposed to Covid, don't leave your home. I don't see why others shouldn't walk around / party, if they're themselves willing to take on the risk of infection.
Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings
231–240 of 415 posts
Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why are you conflating "aggressively addressed this problem" with a strict lockdown? The spring lockdown made sense, in that we didn't really have much information. At this point, we have a bunch of other tools that we aren't using, because people have decided that doing anything is somehow the equivalent of a strict lockdown.
> Why are you conflating "aggressively addressed this problem" with a strict lockdown? The hypothetical was "Imagine if we had addressed the problem in March?" We did in fact lock the country down for several months. People seem quick to forget it for political reasons.
Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not when your recklessness threatens my life and the lives of my elderly parents.
Your choices and decisions are what threatens your life. If you don't want to be exposed to Covid, don't leave your home. I don't see why others shouldn't walk around / party, if they're themselves willing to take on the risk of infection.
Jeez, what a short-sighted, selfish, impatient, and entitled point of view. I'm guessing you haven't spent much time living anywhere that's actually dangerous?
A large percentage of people in the world have live their lives cautiously, because where they live is really dangerous. There are places that have to deal with ebola still, there are places where not being deferential to the right person means that you and your family are hunted and killed. Most of these places are what we call third-world countries, and being in danger, having your family in danger, is a staple of living in them. If they've been dangerous for a long time, then ALL of the people living there live cautiously, defensively, because everyone who wasn't genetically predisposed to this behavior was killed by their environment long ago.
In most first world countries, and the USA in particular, a vast majority of the population has no clue what it's like to live under these types of conditions, where you actually have to try to take steps to protect yourself. Until this year, the most danger the average American was in was during our morning commutes, where being actively defensive means "Try not to look at your phone too much while driving". Now we're just experiencing a taste of how it is to live in many of the third world countries.
What is absolutely insane though, is not that we are too stupid to figure out how to live cautiously and defensively (we're not used to having this burden, so it's somewhat understandable that we don't know how to handle it), it's that even when we're told common sense procedures to act defensively, we actively fight against them. Taking precautions that are stupid simple, that are common sense, that are EASY, and that will preserve our lives, the lives of our family and friends, and the lives in our communities, we reject those because we can't get past the delusional narcissism that we should never have to sacrifice anything.
And that's why we've had 240 thousand deaths due to covid since March. Cause we, as a nation, responded as entitled yuppy assholes, instead of taking some basic, easy, mature steps to protect ourselves.
Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
How can we live good if there exists a significant amount of people rejecting seatbelts? We need to face the reality that on average people make bad choices which leads to substantial negative outcomes for any group. In particular, the COVID-19 pandemic again confirms empirically that humans on average don’t have self-responsibility. How can philosophical ideas that are founded on principles such as “humans have self…
Not wearing a seatbelt hurts yourself only. If Covid were an STD there would be huge social pressure on it even though it would be passed less frequently.
Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
And liability is part of that - that's why auto insurance is mandatory. There's a difference between reckless endangerment/homicide than an accident. Ridiculous false equivalency.
"There's a difference between reckless endangerment/homicide than an accident. Ridiculous false equivalency." And yet, comparison of catching a virus to homicide by gun is not.
Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
The flu kills tens of thousands of people a year - disproportionately many of whom are young, unlike SARS-CoV2 - and is a transmissible disease. Driving kills hundreds of thousands of innocent people a year. Where is the line when it’s OK to control peoples lives because you are afraid? This is how authoritarianism starts.
Wear a piece of cloth in front of your fucking face until a global pandemic gets under control != “control people’s lives”
Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's very clearly not murder; that'd set really bad precedents. You might be able to pull off something like involuntary manslaughter, but I tend to doubt it.
I wonder if a civil prosecution might be easier. Have people pay for others' loss of wages, medical expenses, the support of dependents of people they caused to kill, etc, when they can be shown to have caused the spread and been irresponsible, to a civil burden of proof. Two possible problems: 1) It might hurt tracing efforts if people are worried about being prosecuted (ie. people "clam up"). For example, this part…
Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings
#238First off let me make it clear (1) I've mostly stayed entirely isolate since March. (2) I plan to stay isolated. So don't shoot the messenger please. Anyway, I live in Tokyo. Tokyo Metro area has basically all of California (SF, SD, etc..) squeezed into an area the size of Los Angeles. 34 million people. Tokyo has been mostly unlocked since June. Theaters and other venues are open (every other seat), clubs are open (…
Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
I really lament that HackerNews has become just another outlet for political propaganda and manipulation. It didn't used to be this bad, but now there's large scale brigading of the top comment sections just like at reddit. I don't know what the solution is, but the reddit/HackerNews model of discussion definitely has its downsides in the face of malicious actors.
This reads as the equivalent of an ad hominem argument - why not address your concerns with the merits of what was said, rather than just dismiss it as propaganda?
Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
How can we live good if there exists a significant amount of people rejecting seatbelts? We need to face the reality that on average people make bad choices which leads to substantial negative outcomes for any group. In particular, the COVID-19 pandemic again confirms empirically that humans on average don’t have self-responsibility. How can philosophical ideas that are founded on principles such as “humans have self…
> We need to face the reality that on average people make bad choices which leads to substantial negative outcomes for any group. In particular, the COVID-19 pandemic again confirms empirically that humans on average don’t have self-responsibility. None of this has to be accepted or conceded to, somehow East Asian countries are able to do to this right, even New Zealand just so we don't start hovering on West vs East…
But you’re right that culture can bring out the worst out of people and that we are getting the bill now.